SCOTT DETROW, HOST:
Former President Barack Obama commented over the weekend about a racist post that the White House took down from one of President Trump's social media accounts. The post included an image of Obama and former first lady Michelle Obama as apes. The former president said many Americans, quote, "find this behavior deeply troubling." But it fits into a larger and ongoing pattern of extremist rhetoric and imagery coming from the Trump administration. NPR's domestic extremism correspondent Odette Yousef joins us now to discuss. Hey, Odette.
ODETTE YOUSEF, BYLINE: Hey, Scott.
DETROW: So look, this is not the first time the president has said or posted something that is really outside the bounds of acceptable public discourse. Put all this into context for us.
YOUSEF: Yeah, I spoke with Eric Ward about this. He heads the civil rights organization Race Forward, and here's how he framed it.
ERIC WARD: If this were just one racist image or one bad post, it wouldn't matter much. What matters is that, over the last year, the Trump administration has increasingly learned to speak in the emotional language of white nationalism. And once a government starts talking that way, it quietly changes who the country is for.
YOUSEF: And Scott, you know, Ward and others have seen this not just out of the White House, but also the Department of Homeland Security, the State Department and the Department of Labor, you know, where language, visual style and some of the musical choices are reflective of what historically was contained within fringe extremist movements. Now, Trump has said he did not see that part of the post that depicted the Obamas. He said an aide was responsible for it. But the racism of that post was not necessarily surprising to people who've been tracking extremist themes in public messaging from this administration. You know, Scott, what was notable to them was its overtness, you know, in contrast with the dog whistles or insider references of other messaging that, you know, only people familiar with the white nationalist movement would readily recognize.
DETROW: Can you give us a few examples of some of those dog whistles?
YOUSEF: There have been so many examples. You know, one of the most notable was a social media post from DHS to recruit ICE agents, and the post said - which way, American man? This was largely taken as a reworking of the title of a racist antisemitic book called "Which Way Western Man?" That book is part of the neo-Nazi white nationalist canon. Another example, we've discussed on this show before, Scott, the concept of remigration that DHS and the State Department have publicly endorsed. That concept was largely popularized by far-right ultranationalists in Europe. You know, NPR asked DHS about the pattern of public messaging that resembles white nationalist propaganda, and a spokesperson wrote back, quote, "by NPR's standards, every American who posts patriotic imagery on the Fourth of July should be canceled and labeled a Nazi - not everything you dislike is Nazi propaganda," end quote.
DETROW: What is the point of this kind of messaging, though? I mean, I think it's fair to say that most Americans are not supportive of white nationalism or extremism.
YOUSEF: That's absolutely right. I mean, white nationalists comprise a very small proportion of the American public. You know, people I've been speaking to think this is really about training the public's reflexes to associate certain ideas with each other. For example, associating immigrants with crime, associating America with whiteness. But, you know, Scott, for me, it's troubling that covering domestic extremism is now not just about tracking fringe groups, but tracking federal government - you know, federal government messaging.
You know, one person who explains how all of this fits together is J.M. Berger. He's a scholar at the Middlebury Institute of International Studies. And he defines extremism not simply as movements that are out there. He says extremism actually is the belief that your community can only be successful or secure if it's engaged in harmful action against another community. And that belief can be promoted by a government itself. Berger calls this lawful extremism, where the apparatus of the state is used to enforce those systems of supremacy and harm. And Scott, I think it's a term we might think about as we look at how this administration has embraced language premising the safety and success of some Americans on the removal of certain immigrants.
DETROW: Lawful extremism, interesting. NPR's Odette Yousef, thank you so much for your reporting.
YOUSEF: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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