A MARTÍNEZ, HOST:
After federal immigration agents shot and killed Renee Macklin Good and Alex Pretti in Minnesota, more states and localities are looking at ways to restrict ICE. Now, among them is the state of New York, where Governor Kathy Hochul announced new legislation last week that would ban police departments from formally cooperating with ICE. I spoke with Governor Hochul about what effect the legislation could have statewide.
KATHY HOCHUL: Well, New York City is a sanctuary city. But statewide, we have had counties and sheriff's departments and other policing organizations, even as close as Nassau County on Long Island, that have bulked up their local police department to become basically deputized ICE agents. So it is happening in other parts of our state, where they're using local resources that are taking away from local policing. And that's the genesis of this, which is saying, you know, let ICE do their job. We don't agree with how they're doing it. I think they're a rogue agency out of controls. But separate from that, our local police should be focused on solving local crimes or preventing crimes, and not have them weaponize police officers against their own communities.
MARTÍNEZ: But there are 62 counties in the state of New York. Fewer than 10 are cooperating with ICE on any level. Why is it worth pushing this bill to make that a full 62 out of 62?
HOCHUL: Because it shouldn't be going on anywhere. We have counties like - as I mentioned, Nassau County's a very large county right next to New York City and has a large immigrant population. And literally in my office, you know, a short time ago, I hosted people who've been affected by this. And one was a sixth-grade boy sobbing in my arms because his father was taken away from him by the local police officers. Not ICE, but local police turned him over to ICE, and he was - all he was doing was walking on the sidewalk outside of Home Depot. This child is traumatized. As a mom, I just - I'm sobbing. I mean, the stories are just so egregious, and that's happening in a very populated county right here in New York.
MARTÍNEZ: Now, I've heard, Governor, that your bill doesn't go far. Now, for years, immigration advocates have pushed for New York to pass the New York for All bill, which would provide more protections for immigrants. You do not support that bill, Governor. Why not?
HOCHUL: Well, I sat with representatives from the coalitions this morning who gave me a lot of praise for what I did on Friday and recommending this bill, so they thought it was a very positive step. The New York for All Act wasn't passed by our legislature last year. It was passed by one of the two Houses. And there's absolutely elements of that that I believe we can find common ground with and get over the finish line, so the conversations are still ongoing.
MARTÍNEZ: OK. Now, the Trump administration does not like this bill. A spokesman for Homeland Security told The New York Times your legislation would require federal agents to have an even more visible presence on the street. How do you respond to that assertion?
HOCHUL: Well, why don't they take off their masks, and we'll really know who they are? I mean, they surround people's vehicles wearing masks, bearing guns. Like, we don't know if these are, like, people involved in gang warfare or not. I mean, they need to be under control, and that's what I'm calling for as well.
MARTÍNEZ: But doesn't it stand to reason, though, that if ICE isn't getting cooperation with local police, that they will have to send more ICE agents to try and pick up the slack?
HOCHUL: I'm not buying that argument. No, they don't. Why don't they focus on what they promised during the election? Remember the phrase, we're going after the baddest of the bad, the worst of the worst - the murderers, the drug traffickers, the human traffickers. I've not seen that when I'm talking to a sixth-grader whose dad was walking down the street in front of a Home Depot, taking his kid out after school. So they're not telling the truth. They have deviated from their original mission that I think was part of the election. And people now who maybe voted for them are having second thoughts, saying, this is not what we signed up for. And that's coming now from Republicans in law enforcement.
The Trump administration ought to pay close attention to the support. He is - they are losing by the hour, and it comes down to the fact that they have a quota of 3,000 people a day. So if they've already gotten all the worst of the worst and the baddest of the bad, which I support, now you're going after ordinary people trying to live a life, trying to build a better dream for their families than they had in the country they came from, just like my immigrant grandparents did.
MARTÍNEZ: All right. Now, what you're proposing still needs to pass the state legislature. What stages is it in? What happens next?
HOCHUL: Well, it's - it'll be introduced. The legislative leaders and I will be meeting on this, talking about, you know, their ideas as well as we develop a final package. But we stand together in this. You know, this is a moment in history where we'll be judged by whether we stood up or we cowered to power. And seeing the 250th anniversary of our country reminds all of us that protecting a democracy or even creating a democracy is not easy. But trying to take down tyranny is even harder, and we have to band together to stop the - what is unfolding before our very eyes. We are seeing the destruction of our country. And that's an extreme statement. I never thought I'd say that. But sit in a room with me when I've got children crying in my arms, and it gets very powerful, the messages that have to get out to people all over this country. What has happened to our country, and how do we take it back?
MARTÍNEZ: That is Kathy Hochul, governor of New York. Governor, thanks.
HOCHUL: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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