Links to resources:
End of Life Choices Oregon
Oregon's Death with Dignity Act
The following transcript was generated using automated transcription software for the accessibility and convenience of our audience. While we strive for accuracy, the automated process may introduce errors, omissions, or misinterpretations. This transcript is intended as a helpful companion to the original audio and should not be considered a verbatim record. For the most accurate representation, please refer to the audio recording.
MICHAEL DUNNE: I'm Michael Dunne. I'm very fortunate with this show. I get to talk to very well-known people and share those conversations with you. Well, for the next two shows, I'm going to share a conversation with someone none of you know or have ever heard of, and you'll never get to meet him because he died on May 5, a date and a method of his own choosing. Indeed, Tom Lehman was not someone well known, but over the course of the next two shows, you'll get to meet him and understand why he chose to end his own life, why such a decision is not only ominous but filled with logistical challenges and why Oregon's Death with Dignity, law can be a gift for those who die and those who remain behind. I met Tom layman a few months ago. In fact, he reached out to us at the station to let us know he was going to participate in a program called made that stands for medical aid in dying. Basically, Tom was going to take a cocktail of drugs from a medical professional to end his life. He wanted to know if we would like to talk with him about it, and I did. I was curious as to the whys and how’s a person might want to end their own life, and was honored to be allowed inside this amazingly complex decision. So, I traveled out to Tom's humble home, right up against the railroad tracks in West fir. I met this frail but kind and humorous man, and began to talk to him about his life and his decision and what he thought, all that would transpire. This is our conversation. A quick note, as one can imagine, Tom took heavy pain medication, and while I found him completely lucid, there are a few moments where he struggled with his thoughts and words. Tom Lehman, thanks so much for having me come out to your house and talk to you. I really appreciate it.
TOM LEHMAN: Well, you're certainly welcome, and I appreciate your visit, and hopefully we can use this time to get some information out to the good folks of Lane County and maybe beyond.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Tell us about your health condition.
TOM LEHMAN: Okay, my main health condition is COPD, and I'm considered…I'm gonna die, okay, okay. A lot of people prefer to use less direct words, but I'm pretty blunt about it, and in the past, I have dealt with a lot of dead bodies as a first call service provider, where I had a service where I would call a mortuary would call when they're busy. I see, and I would go to a location and pick up a cadaver and deliver it to wherever they wanted it delivered.
MICHAEL DUNNE: I see. How long have you known that this condition was going to end your life? How long have you been terminal?
TOM LEHMAN: I would say probably about four months.
MICHAEL DUNNE: And you have some other conditions?
TOM LEHMAN: Yes, I have prostate cancer, but prostate cancer at a certain age, doctors will, or might say, well, prostate cancer for men is something that one a man would more than likely outlive before it takes them down, depending on the strain, you know, whether it's carcinoma or seminoma or whatever else.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Okay, when, when did you make this decision that you wanted to be in control, to end your life?
TOM LEHMAN: Quite a while ago, if it ever came to this, I decided probably I would say
10 or 20 years ago. That's a difficult question. And another thing is, the reality of it is, you know, you can say, well, like maybe I said when I was 60, wow, when I turned 70, I'm going to pull the plug, because I've lived life burning the candle at both ends. Okay, which I have,
MICHAEL DUNNE: If I could ask, How old are you now?
TOM LEHMAN: Today, I'm 72 let's see. I'll be 73 on March 5.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Okay, and once you had been diagnosed with this condition, and I imagine, you know, talking to a physician, could you tell our audience, sort of, what's the process that you went through to be able to obtain the necessary medical medications to end your life
TOM LEHMAN: The M.A.I.D, which is medical assistance in dying. My primary doctor. I told him that I had a desire to end my life. And he connected me with hospice, okay, and they connected me with,
by the way, hospices, they're really fine folks, and they're very generous with their time and
And they're just nice people. So anyway, they connected me with End-of-Life Choices Oregon. They connected me in short term with a doctor in Eugene, and it seemed like once I saw the doctor in Eugene, it was like maybe two or three days, and I had the prescription and all the information that was necessary to consume it.
MICHAEL DUNNE: I see. So, did they kind of give you a description of how it would work on you, what it would be like?
TOM LEHMAN: Absolutely.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Can you describe it?
TOM LEHMAN: What happens is a few hours say, I believe it was, I believe it's something like eight hours. I would wake up in the morning and not eat. Okay, not consume food prior to consuming the M.A.I.D compound, I am to take two pills, which are anti vomit pills, okay, one hour prior to it, then after that hour, I take the compound, I mix it in two, two fluid ounces of like apple juice or a juice of your choice, then you consume after, okay, here's the instructions: After taking the first sip, they like you to consume as much as you can within the first two minutes, because you're likely to fall into a deep sleep after that, okay, and then, after consuming the product, the time of death can be anywhere from 15 minutes to four hours.
MICHAEL DUNNE: And you would be unconscious?
TOM LEHMAN: Oh, yeah, correct. Yeah, totally unconscious. Okay. And what will happen is the breathing will slow down, and then the heart will slow down, the breathing will stop, and then the heart will stop, and you're then considered dead.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Tom, you know, a couple questions from, from what we just talked about, in terms of, you have this, this terminal illness, I want to talk a little bit about the quality of life that you have right now, because I would imagine that's part of this decision-making process, isn't it? So however, you're comfortable describing sort of, because I imagine the quality of life while you're alive was part of your decision-making process, process? Am I right in that?
TOM LEHMAN: Yes, yeah. Well, I, I, I consider myself to have a really good life. I'm not monetarily, not I don't have very much, okay, but I have a comfortable place to live, and I'm thankful for it. Whoa, yeah. See, here we go again...Bring me back to where we your question.
MICHAEL DUNNE: I was just asking about quality of life.
TOM LEHMAN: Oh, quality of life. I have a really good quality of life. Good. I do have pain though. Okay, okay, and I don't want the pain to get to a point. Oh, I've had some bouts. I've had some I call them episodes where I'll be sleeping, and it feels like somebody's jabbed a needle in my feet and pumped it up to 150 pounds. And it brings me to tears. It's 10 on the Richter scale, if you will.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Of course, the decision to end one's life doesn't always involve just a single person. Tom was a father and a brother. During the course of getting to know Tom, I was able to talk with his daughter, Shannon Allen, and get some of her thoughts about her dad and his decision. Shannon Allen, the daughter of Tom layman, thanks so much for talking with us.
SHANNON ALLEN: I'm happy to do it.
MICHAEL DUNNE: I'm going to start with this question. You know, when, when your dad told you that he was going to end his life using the medication prescribed - what did you think?
SHANNON ALLEN: I think I really never had the time to know how I feel about it. I just knew right away I wanted to support him, and my brother had recommended watching the show dying in Oregon, and I'll never forget the opening scene where there's a man sitting on the side of his bed. I believe there's a nurse or someone with the program there saying you can change your mind. And he's like, No, I'm not going to change my mind. And but that was the scene that I was like, That's how everyone should have the opportunity to die. Yeah, with loved ones, yeah. You know, on your own terms. You know, I grew up on wannabe farms where we shot animals to put them out of their misery. And I think people deserve the same dignity. I know there's a lot of other weight and things to consider, but, you know, I'm just looking at me and my dad and this situation and I just wanted to support him.
MICHAEL DUNNE: You and I have had some conversations before, and you shared with me, and I want to ask you to share with the audience. You know, you had asked him several times in the lead up to this, you know, did he have any reservations? What did he tell you?
SHANNON ALLEN: I did. Oh gosh, you know, I wish I was younger and more social media minded. I don't want to pull out my phone, even though I know I want to record things. And so, there were moments I did record, but then I would forget and like, this is a moment I regret not catching on film. I arrived in town on a Friday, and I coaxed him outside to sit outside with me. And you know, I asked him, "Are there any moments, maybe, like, right when you wake up, or right when you go to sleep, that you could have just thought, Wait, am I really doing this? And he physically lifted up while he was sitting and, like, sat forward very exaggeratedly and, nope, I can't remember the exact words now, but he was like, never and, I ended up asking him a few more times and again, not thinking about recording it. It wasn't until the day of I finally, oh, I should record this, but he was like, so tired of me asking that his answer never changed. But the exuberant body movement answer wasn't included in the final time I asked him. And then there were things that were said during the process. You know, you know silly things like, “oh and away we go….”
MICHAEL DUNNE: Let's get back to our conversation with Tom Lehman, who ended his life with the medical aid in dying program. Tom, do you have fear about taking your own life?
TOM LEHMAN: No, I think it's for me. It's like, this is a great thing. I get to do it on my terms. It's not painful because of my belief. This is something that I wrote about my feelings…
MICHAEL DUNNE: Okay, why don't you go ahead and read it, if you don't mind.
TOM LEHMAN: Certainly. “and when we die, we'll travel there, beyond the stars, beyond the light, to a dimension where time, mass and space do not exist. You'll have no questions, because you'll be the answer that distant place is here and now turned inside out back to singularity.
MICHAEL DUNNE: It was very well written. And I'm thinking, you know…
TOM LEHMAN: Thank you.
MICHAEL DUNNE: So, forget about where maybe, conventionally, people might talk about heaven and hell, but do you think there is possibly something else that might happen when your physical body dies?
TOM LEHMAN: I don't know, you don't know, but it's possible. Sometimes I would go into a store
and they would ask, Oh, how are you today? Now we might say, Oh, I'm dying. And they go, Oh, that's terrible. And I would reply, well, I don't know. I've never been there before!
MICHAEL DUNNE: It is obviously life's great mystery.
TOM LEHMAN: It is, I'll tell you what, I'll call you back when I die and let you know!!!
MICHAEL DUNNE: Do you have a message for people listening? Obviously, you live in Oregon, which is a state that was famous for legalizing the right to die, and I'm wondering if you have a message?
TOM LEHMAN: I do. If you are suffering and it's out of control and there is no way out. I absolutely suggest that you look into the M.A.I.D. product or the process. I mean, when our horses break a leg or something happens to an animal, and its terminal, most people would put them down. Well, I think it's equally humane to put yourself down.
MICHAEL DUNNE: I know you have family, and I'm wondering, were there difficult conversations with family members about, what about this choice?
TOM LEHMAN: Certainly, I would say for the most part, my family is Christian and for the most part, they're very understanding, and they gave me the okay on if that's my decision, then it's mine to be made. And they're very generous that way. And I hope anybody else, who decides to go through with this process has the experience that I had in so much as my family was understanding and allowed me to make the decision to take the drug.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Tom, have you thought about, is there a ritual you're going to kind of go through on the day that you take your life? Is there like a last meal, an image that you want to have in your mind, a photograph that you want to have with you? I just didn't know if there was some sort of way in which you want to go through with this in terms of physical comfort or whatever it might be.
TOM LEHMAN: Hmm, interesting question. No.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Okay…
TOM LEHMAN: I mean, dying is dying, you know. You can't really, you know, sugar coat it!
MICHAEL DUNNE: No, you can’t.
That's the end of part one of our conversation with Tom Lehman, who ended his life with the medical aid in dying program. Tomorrow on the show, we'll talk more about that decision and all the surprising logistical challenges one has to navigate when they choose to die on their own terms. All episodes of organ on the record are available as a podcast at KLCC.org. I'm Michael Dunne, and this has been Oregon On The Record. Thanks for listening.
