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MICHAEL DUNNE: I'm Michael Dunne. Right now, in our state, 1000s of people are anxiously looking at the weather reports and hoping for snow. They get their wish. Soon, they'll be heading for Mount Bachelor, Mount Hood, Hoodoo and Willamette Pass to swoosh down the slopes on fresh powder, and when the snow eventually flies and these ski bums hit the resorts, they're going to be in for a bit of a sticker shock today on the show, personal finance reporter and lifelong skier, I mean, green of the Oregonian talks about the escalating cost of ski lift tickets in Oregon and the reasons why. Then we'll finish out the show talking with KLCC, Rebecca Hanson white to get an update on one of the most contentious local stories this year, license plate cameras. Aimee Green, who covers pocketbook issues with the Oregonian, Aimee, thanks so much for talking with us.
AIMEE GREEN: Yeah, I'm happy to be here.
MICHAEL DUNNE: I enjoyed your story. And I should say this, it's not news to say that skiing is an expensive sport, but you did a really exhaustive look at just what the cost of a lift ticket in Oregon is. Tell us about your story and what you found.
AIMEE GREEN: Yeah, well, I have lived in Oregon most of my life. I started skiing when I was 11 or 12, and I remember back then it seemed expensive. My grandfather and my dad would bring us up skiing. And you know, I don't remember the prices back then, but as I became an adult, I began to buy my own lift tickets, and thought, wow, this is kind of a big hit to the pocketbook. And now that I have children and a family, I'm paying for lift tickets. And so I've noticed over the past few years that the prices seem high. It's a very expensive sport, though, I mean building lifts and resorts and getting clearance from the federal government. But anyway, I decided to look and see if prices were going up, especially because I'd heard so much talk in the legislature during hearings about how the ski industry and some other recreational industries in Oregon felt like they were really struggling to get insurance, And that insurance premiums were increasing, and therefore that made me think, well, prices probably are increasing too. The only ski resort to really come out publicly and talk about prices was Timberline in October put out a Facebook post saying, okay, yes, these insurance premiums this year are going to be more than double what we paid last year. Our deductible is 10 times what it was last year, and unfortunately, we're going to have to raise prices. Mount Ashland has also been talking to media in Southern Oregon about some of the struggles of insurance prices, as well as higher wages and maintenance and tariffs and all these things are making it more expensive to operate. But yeah, what I found is, by and large, lift ticket prices, Season Pass prices are inching up, and when I've reached out to ski resorts, oftentimes they're citing the costs of insurance.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Interesting. I wonder too obviously, especially living here in the West, where, you know, drought becomes a big issue, and I know that for many ski resorts up and down the West Coast, to be able to continue to offer ski lifts and ski mountains, they need to manufacture snow. Is that also a rising part of this cost?
AIMEE GREEN: You know, I've got to think that it's not as profitable to operate a ski resort here when your ski season window is shorter. I think a lot of skiers and snowboarders are seeing that this year, with the major resorts not opening yet as of mid-December, and closely checking the forecast, hoping that the ski season will start soon. But yeah, it. The climate is fluctuating a lot. Last year was a great ski season. This year, who knows what's going to happen. You know, one thing I haven't seen much of from my personal experience is snow making in Oregon. Okay, I went up to Canada last ski season and definitely saw the snow makers there like at Whistler. So yeah, that makes operating a ski resort more expensive, less profit, with a less favorable ski season, shorter window for skiing, and also the expenses of manufacturing snow.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Yeah, covering pocketbook issues as you do, I know that a lot of consumers are concerned about insurance in general, whether it's health insurance or being able to even have homeowners’ insurance because of what we just talked about, climate change and whatnot. I'm wondering too, you know, looking at these resorts and wondering, could having to foot the bill for ever increasing insurance? Could that be an existential threat to skiing or ski resorts here in Oregon?
AIMEE GREEN: You know, there's a huge argument about that. If you talk to the ski resorts, if you talk to the insurers, they'll say absolutely, we're worried that we're one lawsuit. We're one big lawsuit away from shutting down. It was really interesting thinking about that idea. I asked some of the people in the ski industry what they mean by that, and what they mean is they can't get enough insurance coverage to fully cover their potential liability. So, let's say, and I'm just throwing out numbers, because no one's talking about the exact numbers, but let's say a ski resort is insured for up to $5 million so if they lose a lawsuit from an injured skier, the insurance company will cover $5 million in losses, but let's say the jury verdict is $10 million or $20 million they're on the hook for that extra 5 million or $15 million and that comes out of their assets. So, yeah, they're very worried about that, and they're telling me that there is only one insurance company willing to insure them in Oregon, with the other insurance company leaving this ski season saying it's just too expensive and too risky to insure Oregon skate resorts.
MICHAEL DUNNE: In your look at the cost of lift tickets throughout the state, is there a particular mountain that's kind of a bargain, given what you found?
AIMEE GREEN: Yes, and there's two resorts that I have not been to in Oregon. I'm Portlander, so I most often head to Mount Hood. I sometimes head to mount bachelor, but Willamette pass and hoodoo have some really low prices depending on the day. Hoodoo is saying their prices might dip to $10 per day depending on the weather and the day of the week. So that may not be a day that many people want to go out. I'm guessing it's going to be a rainy day on a Tuesday or a Wednesday. Willamette pass is also offering tickets as low as 16 or $17 on some weekdays. And the thing is, you have to buy them early. You have to buy them now, not knowing what the weather is like, because they both will be using dynamic pricing models. So, if it turns out to be a glorious powder day, the price may go way up.
MICHAEL DUNNE: I want to get back to the insurance question a bit, because I'm a skier as well, and I think most people who ski can understand that it is an inherently risky endeavor. You're, you know, sliding down a steep hill on a pair of pieces of composite or wood, and lots of other people are on the mountain, I mean. And plus, there's a lot of people who maybe overestimate their abilities, and of course, there's the whole issue of going out of bounds. I mean, there's a lot that can happen when people go skiing. Are there any efforts that you were able to ascertain from the mountains themselves to try and make it a safer sport, or impact more regulations or enact more regulations so that they might be able to somehow lower their insurance premiums?
AIMEE GREEN: I think the ski resorts are trying very hard to create an environment where they are not in a position where they're brought into court in a lawsuit, and a jury's told, hey, the ski resort didn't educate the skier, snowboarder about the risks of this sport, or hey, this lift was not operated properly. There weren't enough staff. I think that the ski resorts are working really hard to run a safe operation. Me, personally, having been up there, they'll tell you, if you're breaking a rule, there's ski patrol out there. There are signs posted to ski or snowboard, you need to sign a liability waiver that explains the risks of the sport. And those liability waivers are really unenforceable in the current legal environment in Oregon, but it is a reminder to skiers and snowboarders that this is a risky sport and the rules need to be followed.
MICHAEL DUNNE: One of the critiques of skiing, and not just this year, it goes back quite some time, is that it is sort of the it's, it's, it's a white, rich person's sport, and some of the costs we've been talking about here sort of bear that out. And I'm wondering, you know, in talking to the spokespeople and various leaders of the ski resorts, that's been a bugaboo for quite some time to try and attract more lower income people to come and give the sport a try with lift tickets increasing like you found. Does this put even more of a damper in that particular issue?
AIMEE GREEN: I you know, it amazes me that the crowds that show up at the ski resorts show up at all because it is expensive and meant, you know, it also surprises me, and doesn't surprise me that when the pandemic hit, so many more people began doing outdoor sports, including skiing, which is just so expensive, It feels a lot more crowded to me. I don't have numbers, but I don't know for you, if you feel like there's more people, the lift lines are longer. There are more people on the mountain. So yeah, when I look around like I ski at Mount Hood meadows, when I do go skiing most often, it is a very white sport. There isn't much ethnic diversity there, and I would say not much economic diversity there either, because it's really expensive. Three of the four people in my family have season passes. Makes it a lot more affordable, but you have to be willing. I mean, you know, it's got to pay off, right? You got to go up a dozen times, 15, 20 times, to really start getting good value out of those season passes. So yeah, to answer your question, I think that it is an unwelcoming sport, economically and for people of all sorts of backgrounds, it is not a welcoming sport, like, hey, come up here and spend $600 on lift tickets for your family, or eight even, $800 for a day of lift tickets.
MICHAEL DUNNE: I want to switch gears on you a little bit, because I also enjoyed a more recent story you did, where our senators, Senator Merkley and Senator Wyden are reintroducing a bill that that is establishing a legal age, raising it to 21 to purchase hemp derived products. Talk about that story as well, because that obviously can be another pocketbook issue that impacts even more Oregonians.
AIMEE GREEN: Yeah, hemp is an important industry in Oregon, hemp farming, and it was growing rapidly until the past few years. There's a lot of un-regulation across the nation. I mean, there isn't much regulation across the nation, state by state. States have enacted rules for hemp products like CBD oil and CBD gummy. These THC drinks, I'm told they're sold at the Pickle’s games. I haven't been to a pickles game. Haven't seen them, but these are products that are easily available throughout Oregon and are regulated to some degree by Oregon, but it's different state to state, and consumers can get products from other states mailed to them that they may, especially I'm talking about minors. Minors have trouble getting products in Oregon because of age restrictions. Need to be over 21 to buy some of these products, some of these THC THC products, and they can get them mailed to their homes in Oregon. So federally, there aren't any restrictions. And there's a big discussion going on in Congress, a big debate about whether there should be federal rules for what is legal and not legal nationwide, and that's what what's up for debate now, because recently, this fall, there was a restriction placed on hemp products that make it which really the hemp industry says, Will outlaw about 99% of those products, everything from the CBD gummies to the THC drinks.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Aimee Green, who covers pocketbook issues for the Oregonian. Really appreciate you coming on and talking about both of your stories that you wrote recently.
AIMEE GREEN: Yeah, it was great to talk to you. Thank you.
MICHAEL DUNNE: We're going to finish out the show by talking with our own, Rebecca Hansen-White, about license plate cameras and what happens next. Rebecca Hansen-White, a reporter here at KLCC, thanks for coming in and talking with us.
REBECCA HANSEN-WHITE: Thanks for inviting me.
MICHAEL DUNNE: I was thinking of identifying you as our Flock bureau chief, because you've done so many stories about the Flock, cameras in Eugene and Springfield. Just get our listeners up to speed on what's been happening with the Flock, the license plate reader cameras that we've you've reported on, we've read and heard so much about.
REBECCA HANSEN-WHITE: I mean, I do stories on other stuff!
MICHAEL DUNNE: Yes, you do!
REBECCA HANSEN-WHITE: But as far as Flock in our community, and I say our community, I mean the Lane County. So in the last couple of weeks, Eugene and Springfield have both formally ended their relationship with Flock, and then Lane County, very soon after, followed suit, and what happened was Eugene's police chief reported that one of the cameras had been turned back on, even though, potentially by accident, even though Lane County, or, I mean, the city of Eugene, they had voted they wanted the cameras off while they investigated what to do next. And that had happened quite a bit before that, and Eugene had police had not been using them, and then they told Springfield. Springfield followed suit, and then Lane County left, because they're like, there's no point of us being in a regional network if we're the only one. And there are a few other communities that are still exploring it, but right now, the cameras are off, and those governments want them removed, and Lane County never actually installed any of its cameras.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Could you also remind listeners, sort of what some of the controversy is about the Flock cameras themselves?
REBECCA HANSEN-WHITE: Yeah, so it's not just the cameras, I think that are a concern for people. It is the nationwide network that Flock has that, you know, the company says that you can limit who has access to your network, but that has been kind of an open question sometimes, because, you know, the company did have a contract with Homeland Security, and there has been cases. Illinois has actually regulated Flock and they did an audit and found that some police departments had shared access to their cameras with immigration enforcement, sometimes without knowing. And that has also happened in Washington state a number of times. People who they thought didn't have access actually.
MICHAEL DUNNE: What has law enforcement said about the cameras?
REBECCA HANSEN-WHITE: Yeah, so I think that the book is definitely not closed on Eugene Lane County and Springfield having ALPR cameras. And the reason is that, you know, our police chief and our sheriff have said that the cameras have really helped, and though they were only in Eugene in a cup for a couple of months, they say that the cameras helped them track down some people they believed were targeting Asian American business owners. They arrested those seven people with the help of a camera. They helped them arrest several people who were accused of felonies, including a homicide. Suspect using this technology. And so, Flock is not the only vendor. There are other companies that provide this and so it may be another vendor. It may be after state regulations pass, but I think this issue is going to come back, because both of those law enforcement leaders have been supportive of this technology and wanted to use it, okay?
MICHAEL DUNNE: Well, and you bring up the good point, which is, what happens next?
REBECCA HANSEN-WHITE: So, I reached out to a state lawmaker locally, Floyd Prozanski, who represents Eugene and Springfield, and he told me he had convened a work group to work on this issue for next legislative session, which is a short session to try to come up with some ground rules for you know, if this technology is going to be used in Oregon, what are some common things that that we all agree need to happen for that to happen. And so I think one of the questions that they will be looking at is regulating access to data that is in Oregon to make sure that out of state people who have different values than we do, law enforcement agencies aren't potentially using our data to track people who are in Oregon seeking abortions, who are in Oregon seeking gender affirming Care, who are trying to use the data to keep track of immigrants, or, you know, people who are naturally, you know, those types of uses that go against Oregon's values. And so making sure that those existing shield laws and Sanctuary laws are respected and police departments are accidentally sharing information. So that's a ground rule for sure, and then there are some other things that they probably need to figure out before even more law enforcement agencies start signing contracts with these companies and getting these cameras in their communities.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Well, it's a fascinating topic, and I know we certainly get a lot of comments about it. Really appreciate your reporting on this. Rebecca Hansen-White, who has covered the Flock issue for quite some time. Thanks for coming in and talking with us.
REBECCA HANSEN-WHITE: Thanks so much.
MICHAEL DUNNE: That's the show for today. All episodes of Oregon ON The Record are available as a podcast at KLCC.org. Tomorrow on the show, we will talk with a local transportation advocate about some of our community's most dangerous roads and possible solutions for safety. I'm Michael Dunne, host of Oregon On The Record, thanks for listening.
