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MICHAEL DUNNE: I’m Michael Dunne. Many millions of people in the nation and here in Oregon are experiencing whiplash from actions and reactions coming from the White House. The tariffs are on -now they're off. Earth shattering executive orders are issued, then they're stayed by the courts. Medicaid is sacrosanct and will be protected at all costs, or maybe it will be cut. It's enough to drive one crazy. Well, Oregon senior senator and a veteran of multiple administrations, is experiencing it as well. Today on the show, our semi-regular check in with Ron Wyden to hear what he's seeing in DC and what he and his caucus are trying to do about the chaos emanating from 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, and we'll also hear what he's doing right here at home. Senator Ron Wyden, always great to see you. Thanks so much for coming in and talking with us.
RON WYDEN: Good to be back. Mike.
MICHAEL DUNNE: So, I know you're in town doing several events, and you're with Representative Val Hoyle, why don't you talk about what you're doing in our community?
RON WYDEN: Well, today we'll have a fire briefing, and unfortunately, it looks like we got some we got some challenges. The precipitation is down, the temperature is up, and some of what we faced last summer looks like it's coming back.
MICHAEL DUNNE: And I guess an additional challenge would be that there have been a lot of cuts. Are you concerned about cuts to firefighters, park rangers, those sorts of things at the federal level that we rely on, especially during our increasingly dangerous fire season?
RON WYDEN: Very concerned, and this looks like these cutbacks are a prescription for trouble. As you know, it really started with Trump's freeze. We pushed back very hard. The congressional delegation West Coast members came together, and we got some of that restored. But there's no question that this is still a big problem. And, you know, when I heard, you know, yesterday in in Medford about weather services being cut, I heard about a meteor meteorologist, one meteorologist, who's essentially doing the job of four people. That's trouble.
MICHAEL DUNNE: And as you know, things like that, it's easy to kind of almost take them for granted. But obviously weather forecasts and projections are incredibly important.
RON WYDEN: Yes. One of the things that troubled me yesterday is that I heard we had made some progress in past years in terms of, you know, human, you know, mistakes and matches and all the rest, but looks like we're going back that direction. It's getting a little better. Terms of UAVs and drones and the like, but, but human instances, it's getting worse.
MICHAEL DUNNE: I know you're also in town talking about some mobile mental health crisis legislation you're trying to introduce. Talk about that.
RON WYDEN: Yeah, I'm the author of the legislation that created this opportunity to try to bring together mental health and law enforcement folks, and we made it possible to get support from Medicaid, with Medicaid picking up the vast amount of the financial contribution. We're doing this now in 23 counties in Oregon. And conceptually, what I want to do as we go forward in the years ahead is I want to have the equivalent of law enforcement on one side, you know, with the phone and then have mental health folks on the other side. You make a judgment. The two of them are working together. And obviously, if someone is shooting a gun or something, then you send the police. But if someone is having a mental health challenge, off goes the mental health people. And Lane County's got a history of this, and we're building on it.
MICHAEL DUNNE: And especially as you know more than anybody - . Oregon is both an urban and a rural state. And in the rural areas, especially, it's hard for people who may be having a mental health crisis to get any kind of service.
RON WYDEN: Well, we had another bit of good news. Senator Merkley and I teamed up with Congresswoman Hoyle. Looking Glass is essentially a program that's of enormous benefit to rural kids who are at risk, and we were able to get a couple $100,000 they're renovating their program, expanding it, it's going to make a big difference. And what I ended up with yesterday was saying that I hope now that rural at-risk kids get the same amount of visibility in these areas as the more urban kids.
MICHAEL DUNNE: You’ve been in Eugene and Springfield, but you're also headed up to OSU to deliver a speech. You're going to be talking about your book. First of all, I hope they treat you nicely. You're a duck after all!
RON WYDEN: If there ever was somebody who had chutzpah in his DNA. It's (former Oregon Governor) Tom McCall. We're going to have a lot of fun.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Yeah, exactly. You know, we've talked a little bit about your book, but I want you to talk about the central message about how to fight back for a progressive agenda. Talk a little bit more about that tenant and what you're doing, as well as your caucus.
RON WYDEN: Well, you're taking on the odds and showing grit and determination. You know, early on, you know, the Trump people thought they could slam seniors with the Medicaid freeze and hold off on the Medicaid portals, which is so important for seniors getting, you know, medicine and help with nursing homes and the like. And, you know, people thought, oh, there's nothing we can do about it. This is something that Trump's making a big push. And Trump, of course, said, Oh, I'm for the seniors. I'm for folks that are hurting, but we've had a technical glitch. Well, I have a big network of senior whistleblowers and advocates, so we found that that was just a bunch of baloney. So as the debate went forward, I essentially put online that the vast majority of Medicaid programs in the entire United States were basically on hold in terms of this so-called freeze for technical glitches, and the Trump people were very defensive in the first couple of hours saying, Oh, it's just technical. A couple hours later, we believed we could get it fixed by the next day it was fixed. And basically, everybody said, that's what we've got to do if we're going to, you know, yeah, make sure we don't get run over during some of these Trump whims, when he just gets up in the morning and says, I'm going to cut Medicaid.
MICHAEL DUNNE: The house narrowly passed the big, beautiful bill, the budget. It now goes to the Senate.
RON WYDEN: It’s revolting, and it's a huge gift to the people at the top. You and I have had this discussion before. I want a tax policy that gives everybody in America the chance to get ahead. That's not what this bill does. This bill gives an enormous amount of the net product to the people at the very top. It has the pass through, for example, on taxes, pass through used to be for the sporting goods store on the corner, and they would get to pass through their revenue and pay taxes to individuals. Now it's being used by millionaires and basically private equity firms and the like. And it's outrageous.
MICHAEL DUNNE: What do you think will happen in the Senate?
RON WYDEN: Well, I'll tell you what's going on right now. Members of the Senate, the Republicans in the Senate, are trying to figure out how to not have discussions with their constituents. There are a lot of them who aren't having town hall meetings. I've had three open to everybody. Kind of meetings. One, we had a veteran. He was a Republican. He said, This is Democracy. Isn't that the way it's supposed to work? But I think there's a lot of ducking in the Senate, you know, this week, because Republican senators don't want to be home, and trying to explain the anti-hunger cuts and the Medicaid cuts and the Pell Grant cuts and the like. And I think they'll come back and say, All right, we got to figure out something that addresses what I heard, because I couldn't defend the indefensible. Josh Hawley. Josh Hawley is the senior senator from Missouri. He and I offered the proposal to strike the Medicaid cuts, and we came only two votes short. We may pick them up when we get back.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Okay, I want to get your feedback on some of these executive orders and some of the executive branch attacks on certain things. The first is higher education and what's going on at Harvard.
RON WYDEN: I'm going to be talking tonight about King Donald basically using executive powers to try to unravel the government. And there's no question he's going after higher ed. I mean, what he's trying to do is basically say that I want to make these education programs look like me, and they should be for people like me. And the point is that there are a lot of kids in this country who really like Hamilton, just want a shot, just want a chance to get ahead and work hard and play by the rules. And I'm going to be making that point tonight in terms of fighting the Pell Grants, for example, in particular, which are a big chunk of the reconciliation bill.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Using your word in your book chutzpah. Do you think that Harvard is doing the right thing, standing up to him?
RON WYDEN: Absolutely. I mean, these law firms that knuckled under early on, and some of the universities and the like are going to regret it, and I think Harvard's making the right step forward.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Closer to home for us, but also with our national organization and others. I want to talk about the attacks on the media and what you think about it.
RON WYDEN: I'm a journalist kid. I believe very strongly about it. The Issues relating to the First Amendment. You know, the founding fathers, actually, if you read their writings, many of them thought that a free press was more important than government. Other words, they thought the government came and went. Free Press. That's something that stays with us. It's an American value. It was a core reason why we separated from the Brits, and it's going to be a big issue going forward. And I think Trump is going to find a lot of opposition.
MICHAEL DUNNE: And certainly, our parent organization, NPR, is now suing the federal government. I mean, you're also very well versed in the law. Do you think that the case for the First Amendment can withstand what the Trump administration is trying to do?
RON WYDEN: We've been doing better in the courts than anybody expected. I think there have been 10 cases in the lower courts we've done better. Amy Coney Barrett, you know, who's certainly a very, very conservative justice, looks like she doesn't want any part of these really far right kind of policies that are coming through the courts that haven't had a full kind of airing below, and I'm kind of surprised about it. It's welcome.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Obviously you're a fierce defender of Oregon. I wanted to ask you, too, about some of the attacks at the federal government on states’ rights.
RON WYDEN: Yeah, they basically are saying, Oh, we believe so deeply in states' rights. But what they're really saying is, we believe in states' rights if they think the state is right, I've been saying that ever since the attack on Oregon's Death with Dignity law, and who knows, maybe that'll be one of the ones coming up. But the point really is that this is really a phony argument for these guys to be talking about, about states’ rights, when on issue after issue, Donald Trump, from the executive order on down, is trying to federalize these things when he's been busy saying, oh, I want to have the states have more power.
MICHAEL DUNNE: You do so many town halls, but you were just telling me about one you just did in Curry County over the weekend. Talk about that one.
RON WYDEN: It was a lot of fun. We made our way on a beautiful night to Curry County, and got the wonderful views of the ocean and all that. And the crowd was, you know, packed. Everybody was really fired up. And I started, well, I'm going to do something a little bit different. It's Saturday night. So I looked out at the crowd, and it's, I said, and now live from Curry County. It’s Saturday night democracy! Everybody loved it. We had a good time. But people always say, hey, come when we can. We get there and we're not working. And so Saturday Night Live from Curry County took place.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Every time we've spoken, because you do so many town halls, I always ask you this question - but I'll ask it again. What are some of the things that people are telling you, asking you when you go to those town halls? Because obviously, we're in a very different reality than we were a decade ago?
RON WYDEN: People are really hurting on so many of the economic issues. And you know, Trump kept saying he was going to lower their costs. We all remember him standing in that grocery store, and he was holding up various kinds of food products. Your prices are going to go down. I'm going to make sure your prices in this store go down. And he basically packed that in, you know, within, you know, 10 days or something like that. And the big issue people are talking about are ones where the word is Bill could be medical bill, it could be energy bill, it could be housing bill, it could be college alone. Bill, that's what people are talking about, because they're hurting and Trump is going to see that on this tariff issue. People are saying this is raising my costs, and they know that this is also contributing inflation.
MICHAEL DUNNE: I imagine too, you're talking to business owners. And I imagine even if a specific tariff is on again off again, it’s still so confusing?
RON WYDEN: I've been having town meetings from Pendleton to various discussions in Portland, all across the state, and what the business people tell me more than anything Farmers and tech companies and big businesses and small businesses is that they are just getting hit with a wrecking ball in this constant change and lack of consistency and a lack of predictability, and they say things like, Ron, just tell them, back there, whatever they do, give us the rules and then stick with them. Don't keep changing them every 48 hours.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Yeah, I can imagine, and I've talked to small business owners just trying to understand what's going to happen. It's really impossible to plan for. Are you concerned that this kind of confusion may drive us into a recession?
RON WYDEN: I'm concerned, and everybody that I talked to in terms of economics, I mean, Jerome Powell, Fed has. One of the big things they're trying to take into consideration is this question of predictability. And, you know, Walgreens and Walmart and all these stories are basically saying that the tariffs are contributing to their costs. And I'm glad they're putting the word out.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Let's talk about some of the legislation you're working on. You know, I know that you've got something you're working on. It's a bipartisan bill to tackle certainly one of the biggest issues throughout America and certainly in Oregon, housing affordability.
RON WYDEN: Yes. And I've got legislation that basically uses the tax code for something called LIHTC low-income housing tax credits. And then with Senator Dan Sullivan, Republican of Alaska, I built on that, and I proposed MIHTAC middle income housing tax credits. The developers like this, but so do the tenant advocates, because there's not a lot of red tape and bureaucracy, and you can get it going fast.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Every time we talk, we have talked about bipartisanship, and you're well known for that. I mean, is there still room for that?
RON WYDEN: It's a lot harder. Now, I was pleased and surprised that Josh Hawley, the Republican from Missouri, wanted to join me in terms of getting rid of these, these Medicaid cuts, but apparently his constituents in a ballot measure had voted against that sort of thing, and he didn't want to be, you know, out of out of step. So, one of the key rules in chutzpah that I'll be talking about tonight at Oregon State is I will work with anybody, let me underline anybody who wants to be for the right thing. But if they don't, I'm going to fight them all the way
MICHAEL DUNNE: Speaking of doing the right thing, I did want to get your read on. You know, obviously the gift of the plane from overseas. I mean, are we in an era where so much of ethics is almost thrown out the window?
RON WYDEN: Yes, and it stinks. You know, there have been a couple of articles that have compared some of these past ethics kinds of things, and they went through the Clintons and this presidency and that presidency, and this right now, where we're dealing with hundreds of millions of dollars that seems to go directly into the pockets of the people who live at 1600 Pennsylvania for the next 14 years, for the next four years stinks, and I think in particular, it's not just the legal questions, where there are real issues about whether this stuff's going to hold up, but it sends such a horrible message in terms of, is government for sale? And one of the reasons I do all these town hall meetings. It's that I know people are so skeptical of the government, and I want people to see that at least I, in my capacity, can show up. People can talk about whatever they want. Government is not for sale. I'm there to listen.
MICHAEL DUNNE: You have been a senator when, when it's you're in the minority and the majority. And I know people have been asking, Okay, what can the minority do right now? Like, are there potential legislative solutions to this kind of seeming violation of ethics standards?
RON WYDEN: Well, we've got to follow up. But, I mean, the point really is that if you push and you're clear, I mean, I was able to save the Head Start program in Southern Oregon, because people said, and I was coming to town, they said, Ron's coming town. We'll talk to him about it. So, the three days before I came, I made calls to scores of groups of children's advocates. By the time I got there, everybody said, hooray, hooray. Ron's saved Head Start. And I said, Not so fast, folks, we won. But project 2025, they want to gut the whole thing. And so, you know what you do is you, you pick your[MD1] passions, and then you fight like hell.
MICHAEL DUNNE: You've already made the announcement you're going to stand for re-election one more time…
RON WYDEN: Let me tell you what's going on? Okay? Because it's really kind of becoming a little absurd. Okay, so people ask the relevant, you know, question, which is, you know, what are you going to do about the Trump administration? I said my number one concern is trying to beat these policies as we go forward all the way into 2026 we send a big message that this is not where the country is. This is not what we want. That's my number one issue. And so, several reporters, God bless them, have a right to ask what they want to - Well, what's your plan for the election? And I said, I'm talking about right now, and what we're dealing with in terms of the threat to democracy of the Trump administration. Then they keep asking, and they keep asking and say, my intent is to run again. I'm focused right now on something else.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Okay, what are you focused on this summer? I mean, obviously you talked about 2026 and that that'll be here soon enough that the midterm elections. What are some of the things that you want to work on?
RON WYDEN: The number one thing is beating the Trump economic package, because they want to get this passed before the August one break. Both from the standpoint of they want to be able to, you know, claim they're giving people their tax breaks, according to them, and they're really going to get crumbs, compared to what you know, the billionaires are going to get. But that's the big thing between now and in the summer. In the summer, you know, I'll have a lot of town meetings. I still have this commitment to get to every county every year. And you know, we're looking at some significant health care changes, for example, in terms of health care cost containment. I'm really going after the big insurance companies. The big insurance companies of late are expanding something called up coding, okay? And basically, what up coding means is they will say Michael is sicker than everybody thinks, and so they're going to get bigger. You know, reimbursements from the federal government. It's really very close to fraud, and I'm fighting it.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Well, I always enjoy talking to you and hear about what you're doing as well as what's going on in Washington. DC. Senator Ron Wyden always great to talk to you. Thanks.
RON WYDEN: Let’s do it again.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Sounds great. That's the show for today. All episodes of Oregon on the record are available as a podcast at klcc.org Monday on the show, you'll hear from representatives from the University of Oregon journalism program who've authored a letter demanding protection and adherence to the First Amendment of the Constitution. Finally, we've been asking all week for your input. Last week, we highlighted how tariffs are impacting Central Oregon businesses. If you're a local business owner, we want to hear from you. Are you already experiencing impacts from tariffs, or are you expecting impacts in the near future? Let us know by emailing us at questions@klcc.org and we'll read your comments on the show. I'm Michael Dunn, and this has been Oregon on the record from KLCC. Thanks for listening, and have a great weekend.
