For information about the event at the U of O, go here.
MICHAEL DUNNE: I’m Michael Dunne. It’s no secret that Lane County has a homelessness problem. Each year, it seems we see more people living unhoused. Since a critical court case that began here in Oregon and was ultimately adjudicated by the Supreme Court, many aspects of homelessness have increasingly been treated as criminal behavior.
Today on the show, we’re talking with a University of Oregon professor who is an expert on homelessness. She’ll address common myths about people who are unhoused, the root causes of homelessness in our community, and potential solutions. She believes the resources to end homelessness already exist, but what’s lacking is political will. It’s a difficult conversation, but one our community needs to have to move toward a better future.
Claire Herbert is an associate professor in the Department of Sociology at the University of Oregon. Thanks so much for coming in.
CLAIRE HERBERT: Thanks for having me. I’m glad to be here.
MICHAEL DUNNE: You write and teach about homelessness. I want to start with a basic question: Are there myths about homelessness or being unhoused that society tends to accept, but that are actually misleading?
CLAIRE HERBERT: Yes, that’s a great place to start. One of the most common myths—and one that really hinders progress—is the idea that people want to be homeless or choose to be unhoused. Survey data overwhelmingly shows that people do not want to be homeless.
Sometimes people who are unhoused decline a shelter bed, but that’s often because the shelter is not a good fit for their needs. That refusal is then used to claim they’re resistant to services or that they prefer being unhoused, which simply isn’t accurate.
MICHAEL DUNNE: I imagine that people experiencing homelessness, particularly those dealing with mental health challenges, may also be fearful when someone approaches them and offers help.
CLAIRE HERBERT: Absolutely. Many people experiencing homelessness have what we call institutional trauma. They’ve had difficult or harmful interactions with authority figures, whether that’s police, emergency room staff, or emergency medical services.
That’s why street outreach teams and programs like CAHOOTS are so important. They’re able to build trust over time and help people believe that support is available without coercion or force. That trust is essential for helping people move beyond past trauma.
MICHAEL DUNNE: There’s often a distinction made between people who are homeless and people sometimes referred to as “travelers,” often younger people who appear to be choosing a transient lifestyle. Some people point to that group and say, “See, they’re choosing this.” Can you talk about that?
CLAIRE HERBERT: I’m glad you raised that. In a place like Eugene, with its countercultural history, people may be more familiar with seasonal travelers or van culture, including long-standing traditions like the influx around the Oregon Country Fair.
More recently, movements like “van life,” which grew during the pandemic, have blurred lines between lifestyle choice and necessity. The problem arises when people who have agency in choosing a mobile lifestyle are conflated with people who are unhoused because they have no alternative.
This feeds into what researchers call the “magnet theory,” the idea that providing services draws people experiencing homelessness to a particular city. However, there’s very little data supporting that theory.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Let’s talk about criminalization. People are often confused about this. Is it illegal to be homeless?
CLAIRE HERBERT: No, it is not illegal to be homeless. What is increasingly criminalized is performing necessary life activities in public spaces—sleeping, resting, eating—because people have nowhere else to go.
Over the past two decades, especially on the West Coast, cities have adopted what are called “quality of life” ordinances. These regulations emerged alongside efforts to gentrify downtown areas and often restrict behaviors like sitting or lying on sidewalks.
Although being unhoused itself is not a crime, the behaviors required to survive without housing are increasingly treated as criminal when they occur in public spaces.
MICHAEL DUNNE: In a region like Lane County, with multiple cities, is this essentially a situation where people are just pushed from one municipality to another without solving the underlying problem?
CLAIRE HERBERT: Yes, absolutely. That happens at multiple scales. One of my major concerns with the Supreme Court’s decision in Grants Pass v. United States is that it leaves these decisions up to local governments.
If surrounding jurisdictions criminalize homelessness, people are pushed into places where they’re less likely to face arrest. That can actually promote forced movement rather than stability.
Additionally, metro areas like Eugene and Springfield have more services than surrounding rural areas, which underscores the need for broader regional investment so people can get help where they live.
MICHAEL DUNNE: From your research perspective, what are we doing well, and what are the biggest obstacles? Is homelessness something we can actually solve?
CLAIRE HERBERT: Yes, it is solvable. Unlike many social problems, we know what works. What we lack is political will. Decades of high-quality research show that Housing First approaches are the most effective.
Getting people into stable, non-congregate housing as quickly as possible prevents problems from compounding. Housing provides the stability people need to address health issues, mental health challenges, and other barriers.
One of the biggest obstacles in Eugene is the housing market itself. We not only lack affordable housing, but in Eugene’s case, research shows we simply do not have enough housing units to meet the need.
MICHAEL DUNNE: There’s also pressure from businesses and residents who want immediate action. People experiencing homelessness don’t always have a voice in those spaces. Does that contribute to the lack of political will?
CLAIRE HERBERT: Yes, very much so. Advocacy requires time and energy—resources that are extremely scarce when someone is struggling to meet basic needs. That’s why community advocates are so important.
Providing stable places where people are allowed to stay, such as safe sleep sites, reduces constant displacement. Eugene has made progress here, and while there are complex legal and ethical questions, these sites at least provide people with a place to go.
MICHAEL DUNNE: You’ve written about CAHOOTS, which has been a national model. How does that fit into this conversation?
CLAIRE HERBERT: CAHOOTS represents an alternative mobile crisis response model that pairs medical and mental health professionals. It’s especially effective for people living outside and those experiencing mental health crises.
Many police officers themselves acknowledge they are not the best responders for these situations. The goal is to send the right resource to the right call, and often that resource is not law enforcement.
MICHAEL DUNNE: You have a public seminar coming up this week. Tell us about that.
CLAIRE HERBERT: The Wayne Morse Center is hosting a panel discussion on homelessness and criminalization on February 12. Sociologist Chris Herring from UCLA will join me, and the discussion will be moderated by Dr. Joe Weaver from the University of Oregon.
We’ll be examining how criminalization plays out in both large and small cities, especially in the wake of the Grants Pass decision. The event is free to attend in person or online via Zoom.
MICHAEL DUNNE: We’ll put a link on our website. Claire Herbert, associate professor in the Department of Sociology at the University of Oregon, thank you so much for your insights.
CLAIRE HERBERT: Thanks for having me.
MICHAEL DUNNE: That’s the show for today. All episodes of Oregon On The Record are available as a podcast at KLCC.org. Tomorrow, we’ll talk with the Oregon Food Bank about hunger in our state. I’m Michael Dunne. Thanks for listening.
