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Michael Dunne: I'm Michael Dunne. Oregon Sen. Ron Wyden, along with other national legislators in the West, are at a distinct disadvantage when it comes to travel compared to their counterparts in the East. What might take an hour or two for many senators to fly back home from Washington, D.C., Wyden and his West Coast colleagues often quadruple their flight times. And because Wyden is the kind of legislator who wants and needs to visit as many constituents as possible, his windshield time is also immense. Today on the show, we check in with Oregon's senior senator from the road and talk about a host of issues, from global challenges like the Iran war to state issues like cuts to wildfire fighting resources to important local issues like the recent action with PeaceHealth. Our wide-ranging conversation with the senator is next.
Dunne: Oregon Sen. Ron Wyden, always great to talk to you. Thanks so much for spending some time with us.
Ron Wyden: Well, thanks for having me back. We're headed to Lincoln County, and here's the thing, Michael: we're basically almost 3,000 miles from Washington, D.C. The reality is, southwestern Oregon folks sometimes feel that D.C. might as well be Mars for all the connection it has with them. In other words, they read various things on their phones, they see these stories, and they go, what's this got to do with me? What I try to do is say, look, we're not just going to talk about the fluff and nonsense back in Washington, D.C. We're going to talk about things that matter to you, like health care costs and energy bills and tariffs, these taxes that are clobbering small businesses in southwestern Oregon. That's what I want to do: get out and listen to people talk to me about what's important to them.
Dunne: And certainly, what's important, as you just brought up, is that inflation is high. Your trip out to where you're going is costing more simply because of gas prices. Talk about that from your vantage point as a U.S. senator, but also as an Oregonian. We're all living with higher prices today than a year ago.
Wyden: People always ask me, Ron, what are people talking about at the town hall meetings? And I say right now the big subject is the one where the second word is cost. It might be medical costs, it might be energy costs, it might be housing costs. A lot of people feel like they're just getting hit by a wrecking ball in terms of these expenses. What we try to do is bring it home directly to a typical Oregon family. Gas prices consistently put people at numbers where they feel like they're basically getting robbed when they go to the gas station.
Dunne: And also, we're heading into summer, where traditionally gas prices get higher. From your vantage point, is there any relief in sight, especially with regard to whatever happens in the Middle East right now?
Wyden: Most people listening didn't know much about the Strait of Hormuz six months ago. The reality is, what Trump needs to do now is pull together a group of allies, people who have been working together on this issue, and find something to get it reopened. If you wait much longer, you're not going to be able to get it reopened. You've got to get this done. And the only way to do it, in my view, is to pull together the allies and say, we all have a mutual interest in this. Let's close this deal with something that all sides can live with.
Dunne: Senator, in addition to heading into summer, which for Oregonians is a great time, it's also a fearful time because of wildfires. Our governor, someone you know very well, Gov. Kotek, had a press conference the other day warning about the fact that this is going to be a very bad fire season. You've been sounding the alarm on what the federal government is and isn't doing. Talk about your concerns, specifically around staffing levels and other strategies that might not be available because of cuts.
Wyden: What I'm worried about is the situation in Washington, D.C. On the Oregon side, we've got a lot of people in firefighting who are working hard. They've integrated their operations. But Trump just tries to pretend it's not a serious problem, and he's plotting all these reorganization schemes. Instead of spending time on that, he ought to be getting out these stockpiled firefighting materials and protecting communities. It's a serious situation, and he's not treating it seriously.
Dunne: Is there something that can be done to try and shake loose more resources toward that effort?
Wyden: That's exactly what we're trying to do. I'm a senior member of the Energy and Natural Resources Committee, and Sen. Merkley is on the Appropriations Committee. The reason we held the press conference yesterday was to say, look, our state folks are doing a lot of good work, but the federal government is not. We have to make sure the connection is clear: we need both sides cooperating, getting the dollars out there, particularly for workers and for prescribed fire, so you can get in there and protect communities before things get out of hand. I'm worried about lightning strikes. I'm worried about El Nino. And I'm worried about what we heard yesterday: proposed legislation that might make illegal or severely curtail voting by mail.
Dunne: You're talking about the president's signature voting act that he's trying to get implemented before the midterms. Talk about what it could mean to something that Oregonians love: voting by mail.
Wyden: What Donald Trump doesn't want Oregonians to know is that he's been hostile to vote by mail for a long time. We remember when Putin told him he ought to get rid of vote by mail. Everybody thought it was a joke, but he actually talked about it. And the reality is, there's a big dose of hypocrisy here. After talking all week about how horrible vote by mail is, and I'm the nation's first U.S. senator elected by mail, a Democrat, and Gordon Smith, a Republican, was the second, what did Trump do? After spending the week trashing vote by mail, he went out and voted by mail. So we're just trying to get the story out about why it's safe and effective.
Dunne: You've said again and again that it is safe and effective. What do you think are the prospects of what he's trying to do?
Wyden: He doesn't have the votes right now on the floor of the Senate for the SAVE Act. He just doesn't. Republicans don't feel comfortable with it, and people have gotten accustomed to voting by mail.
Dunne: You've been a sharp critic of the Trump administration's tariffs. We've seen action from the Supreme Court recently. Talk about the words you've spoken on the floor, but also the actions you've taken around tariff refunds, especially after the SCOTUS decision.
Wyden: The Senate voted for my legislation to get rid of Trump's global tariffs, and the Supreme Court did the same. Now it looks like, after months of foot-dragging, the Trump administration has been playing stall ball trying to figure out how to delay getting tariff refunds out. It looks like those refunds are going to start in a few days. I'll be watching carefully, because Trump has consistently said he's going to refund the tariff money and then gone back and tried to downplay it. In fact, one of his recent comments was something to the effect that people are going to be able to get a refund, but he questioned whether they'd even want one. He's done everything he can to slow it up, and we keep pushing to get it out. I think it's finally going to start.
Dunne: I want to turn to the war in Iran. One of the things people are very frustrated by is that one day it seems like there's a resolution afoot, and then the next day it seems like they're far apart again. Both as a senator and as an astute observer of the political scene, what do you think this back and forth from the Trump administration on peace or war is doing to our own national psyche, but also to the standing of America on the global stage?
Wyden: I think people have come to see that Trump is not a serious person when it comes to the specifics of how you handle something. We see headlines where one story says military strikes are taking place, and right next to it Trump is saying everything's over and we've won. What the country is hungry for, and we'll see if Trump is capable of it, is straight talk and some specifics about how he's going to deal with the straits, what he's going to do to pull together allies and build a lasting coalition around nuclear materials. I think this is a chance to see if he can actually be serious and straightforward, or if he'll just keep playing games where sometimes he says the war is over and sometimes he says he's starting the bombs again.
Dunne: Are you concerned about our allies, especially in Europe, and what this kind of posture has done to some of those relationships? The king of England recently addressed Congress and talked about the need for America to be stronger and more resilient. Talk a little bit about that.
Wyden: I'm very concerned about the damage to alliances. Look at what we're dealing with on fire. Do you think the Canadians are going to want to help us in a difficult fire season? They're furious, really at Donald Trump, because Trump has mocked them so consistently. No American president, Democrat or Republican, has done something like that. It has taken a toll. The alliances are fraying, and that can be detrimental to our interests.
Dunne: Part of dealing with foreign governments also involves the FISA Act. You've recently made comments about reforms. First, remind folks what the FISA Act is, and then talk about the reforms you'd like to see.
Wyden: This is a pivotal issue for Oregon. FISA stands for the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. We need surveillance over threats from overseas. That's why it's called the Foreign Intelligence Act. Today, though, with all this technology, more and more law-abiding Americans are swept up in searches when they've done nothing wrong, and there's no warrant. I'm a Ben Franklin guy. Ben Franklin said anybody who gives up their liberty to have security really doesn't deserve either. What I've concentrated on is trying to build an approach that says these two things are not mutually exclusive. We can have security and we can have liberty. They can coexist.
Dunne: One thing that crosses borders and is a scourge on American streets and Oregon streets is fentanyl. I know you've recently talked about the feds cutting a funding program specifically aimed at fentanyl and...
Wyden: Harm reduction.
Dunne: Exactly. Talk about that.
Wyden: Harm reduction is what it sounds like. We need to win the fight against fentanyl and use all the tools available. That means more preventive measures, which Trump is hostile to. We also need law enforcement, and we need to look to the future. Tomorrow I'm going to have a press conference on the development of synthetic opioids called nitazenes. They are many times more powerful than fentanyl. When I talk with law enforcement around the state, they tell me, Ron, help us get out in front of it. We're going to talk about that tomorrow in the valley.
Dunne: Oftentimes drug interdiction is a health care issue, and you've been very vocal on what's happened in our community here in Eugene-Springfield about PeaceHealth. Talk about what you've been saying, and of course now it seems like they're doing a 180 and utilizing the local emergency physicians. Talk about that issue.
Wyden: It looks like we won a round, and congratulations to Congresswoman Hoyle. Congresswoman Hoyle and my colleague Sen. Merkley, and I was happy to be part of it as ranking Democrat on the Finance Committee, which has authority over health care. We've gotten the settlement. And look, that's what you need. You need to recognize that neighbors have to work together and work these kinds of details out. Health care is not for the faint of heart. We're spending $5 trillion a year on health care, but we're really glad we got the agreement here in the last couple of days.
Dunne: Talk about health care costs in general.
Wyden: If you divide $5 trillion by 330 million Americans, you could send every family of four an enormous check and say, here, go buy your health care. And almost half of health care spending goes to middlemen, people who are just adding costs to the system and really don't provide any value. You have vertical integration, which means you don't have the competition that's needed. What I'm working on now is trying to blow the whistle on some of the additional ripoffs. Trump, for example, said earlier this week that he was going to save $600 billion in pharmaceutical costs with something he called Trump RX. We said, give us the details. You want to enact this in legislation. Give us the details of what you're doing. And he won't do it. So he's just trying to get people to buy into sight-unseen pledges, which frankly don't seem to be producing what you can get at your neighborhood pharmacy.
Dunne: A while ago you called for Health and Human Services Secretary Robert Kennedy's resignation. Since we last talked, the president has jettisoned three cabinet members, including former Oregon Rep. Lori Chavez-DeRemer. Talk about accountability at the cabinet level and what concerns you might have there.
Wyden: I think what the president has recognized is that a number of policies he's pursued are not popular. Take immigration. Trump said in the 2024 campaign that he was going to go after drug cartels and murderers and thugs. What we found is that he was bringing in a priest, or someone 17 or 18 years old with brown skin, and deciding that was going to be the person they targeted. There was so much disagreement about what happened in Minnesota, and the reaction we saw there. He said, we're going to have to back off a bit. His words, not mine. And I think that's an indication that grassroots pressure makes a difference.
Dunne: One thing it seems like he's not backing off on, nor are Republicans, is acting on the Supreme Court decision on voting rights. Talk about your concerns about these very quick gerrymandering actions being taken in more red states.
Wyden: It's pretty clear Trump would be plenty satisfied if we just went back to the days of Jim Crow. After the progress that's been made in terms of race relations, this is clearly a step backward. We're going to continue to push on apportionment in the states, but it's clear that Trump is worried about the midterms and wants to turn back the clock and make race a big factor rather than justice.
Dunne: Let's talk about the midterms. Democrats seem to be doing pretty well in special elections in the run-up to the midterms. What are you seeing?
Wyden: The best politics are good policy. That's what people want to hear about. That's what Congressman Hoyle and I will be talking about today, Thursday, in Lincoln County. We're going to be listening. We're going to talk about prescription medicine, gas prices, health care costs, all the issues that are important to people. We'll be outlining the fact that where Donald Trump is doing something that is not in the country's interest, we have ideas to do something differently that will actually help people at their kitchen tables.
Dunne: Last two questions. Speaking specifically about those town halls, I want to dial down further on the mood of people you talk to, both in Oregon and in Washington. What do you think the mood is in the country right now?
Wyden: The country is concerned, because Trump comes at you so quickly without giving any specific detail about how he's going to tackle these big issues. We talked about the war in Iran, where sometimes in the same headline it says Trump says we've beaten them and nothing more needs to be done, and then right next to it is all about the ongoing fighting. People would really like some clear direction, some understanding, at a time when they're worried about the economy and when their loved ones may be in harm's way because of the Iran war. They'd like less bombast and oratory and more specifics about how something coming out of the Trump administration would actually benefit them.
Dunne: Let's finish with some good news. This is the inaugural season for something you've been championing: Oregon's newest professional sports franchise, the WNBA Fire. Talk about your excitement about the brand-new team.
Wyden: To use the parlance of the day, we are totally fired up. I'll be there. Back when I put together the visit of WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert in the winter of 2023, we got together the Blazers, the Thorns, the Ducks and the Beavers and had this incredible meeting where I could tell the commissioner was looking at a scene she'd never seen before. We walked out and I said, Commissioner Engelbert, what do you think? Have you ever seen anything quite this cool, this kind of grassroots groundswell? She looked up and smiled, and I said to myself at that moment, we are going to get this team. That team is not going back east where there's not the enthusiasm and interest that we have. It's been a labor of love to get this team here. It's going to be exciting.
Dunne: All right. Well, as always, enjoy spending time with you. Make sure you save your voice for the town hall tonight. Sen. Ron Wyden, always a pleasure. Thanks so much for spending time with us.
Wyden: Take care. Thanks again. Bye.
Dunne: That's the show for today. All episodes of Oregon on the Record are available as a podcast at KLCC.org. Monday on the show, we talk to the president of Oregon State University about a huge influx of money they're going to put toward paying for athletic programs, paying coaches and, in this new era of name, image and likeness, paying student athletes. I'm Michael Dunne, host of Oregon on the Record. Thanks for listening.
