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MICHAEL DUNNE: I'm Michael Dunne. In these incredibly challenging times, many people want to do something to make a real difference in the world. Some volunteer at a local shelter. Some go out and plant trees, and some donate money to a local charity. And some do something so radical it can only be described as a leap of faith. Today on the show, you'll meet such a person, the leader and founder of a new organization in town called Liberty Walks, who will be leading a group of people to walk from Eugene to Washington, DC in the name of civility and positive change. It's daunting, and some might say quixotic, but to paraphrase an old saying, when the times seem hopeless, the hopeful get walking. And then we'll finish the show by talking to one of our own reporters about a thought-provoking art display at the U of O. Esther Tishman, the founder and director of Liberty Walks, thanks so much for coming on the program.
ESTHER TISHMAN: Oh, thank you so much, Michael for having me.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Sure. Why don't we start with this? What is Liberty Walks?
ESTHER TISHMAN: Thank you for asking. Liberty Walks is an American pilgrimage. It's an act of faith in the United States. Literally, I am organizing a walk across America from Eugene, Oregon to Washington, DC. We're leaving Eugene on July 4 and heading to the mall.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Wow, that's a long way. Over 3000 miles so kind of tell us why you founded this organization. What led up to this?
ESTHER TISHMAN: I mean, many things have led me, you know, I come from a background. I was a university professor and administrator Dean for a bunch of years at the University of Oregon. I really followed my heart and became a healthcare chaplain and interfaith Chaplain just in time for a global pandemic. So, I was COVID chaplain at Sacred Heart here in Springfield and then sort of realized that what I really needed to do next was kind of develop some of those skills. And currently, I'm getting a master's in clinical mental health counseling. So, I've been interested in the space of education and wellbeing and health and flourishing spirituality for a long time, my whole adult life,
and like I think many of us in the recent years, and especially the recent months, I've just been having this heartache about, you know, this feeling of, this is not who we are as a nation, this is not who we are. And you know initially that that phrase, this is not who we are, can come with heartbreak and anger and worry, but increasingly I realized, Oh, this is actually a statement of faith like this is not who we are. We are so much more than this. And I think the urgency of this walk is to actually connect with my neighbors, to connect with the we, that is the we, the people you know. So, it's sort of an act of faith in who we really are. And this hope of slowing down communication and connection to a human pace, one foot after the other is how we can regain a sense of our common ground, as, you know, as compatriots, as neighbors.
MICHAEL DUNNE: What do you think it will look like? I mean, you know, so you and colleagues are going to walk across America. What's that going to look like? I mean, obviously, yeah, you're going to come across a lot of people. How is it going to manifest itself?
ESTHER TISHMAN: So, so the plan so we've broken down, it's 2,800 miles plus change, and we've broken down the route into 146 stops along the way. And so, what we're building now is our network of community sponsors so that when we stop in, you know, Omaha for a night, we are staying with, you know, I'm not sure where we're staying at Noma, but we're staying with people who've said, Yeah, we want to sponsor the walkers so that along the way, we're connecting communities.
MICHAEL DUNNE: What is success going to look like for you?
ESTHER TISHMAN: That's a great question. So, I think success is that walking itself is the walk you know, that this really is saying, Okay, we talk in Liberty Walks. We talk about our core values as respect. Kindness, curiosity and courage and so that curiosity, that's a strong element of this, like, what, what? I don't know what the answers are. I don't know what the right outcomes for our nation are right now. I mean, I have opinions. I have strong opinions, right but I actually want to be open to this moment and really see it squarely, and really see America squarely. Our path takes us through a lot of red states, some blue states, you know, and everything in between. So who are we?
MICHAEL DUNNE: It's funny, as I was thinking about doing this story, I was, I was looking at my phone, and everybody has a little map icon and you can choose, you know, directions. And it gives you a choice. It could be a plane, a car, public transportation, or a walk. That's the slowest and the longest. And I kind of wanted to ask you, I mean, walking is slow, is that part of this? That so much of this is you and your colleagues slowing down to meet people.
ESTHER TISHMAN: Yes, oh, my god. Michael, that's exactly that's a huge part of this, you know, that is, I mean, that is the magic of what a pilgrimage is. You know, we people sometimes think of pilgrimages, which we can think of in religious terms, but it's, I'm using the word in its broadest, spiritual and emotional sense. People think about pilgrimages as a pilgrimage to a place, but the heart of a pilgrimage is actually learning how to be present. Step of the way. The pilgrim has to keep showing up. The Walker has to keep showing up right here and now. And you don't know what the road is going to bring you. You actually don't know you can plan. You know, you can plan forever, which, of course, we're not doing because we don't have forever to plan, sure, but the road will take you where it does and so slowing down to be present. And you know, I will be connected with my, you know, my phone, and I'm sure there will be vlogging and stuff like that along the way, to stay connected. But also, this is a way to not be on my device, not rely on my, on my, you know, infernal little iPhone, sure, for connection to others, yeah, which actually feels more like disconnection a lot of the time.
MICHAEL DUNNE: I'm thinking too, you know, as you said, you were an academician, you were a chaplain. Were there a few experiences when you wore both hats that kind of inform why you want to do this?
ESTHER TISHMAN: I think, you know, my experience in the COVID wards, I think was incredibly informing. You know, it to be especially during the delta wave, when things got very serious in Oregon. You know, we, we kind of it was not so intense early on in the pandemic in the hospital, which is not to say that there wasn't death and suffering, sure, but you know, being the chaplain, right? Or one of the chaplains, like, you know, you show up for everyone, and encountering just the breadth of different kinds of responses, and realizing that, you know, here's a COVID denier. On the one hand, here's, here's a nurse on the other, who's trying to take care of a patient who's angry at her, on the other hand, like I can't change people's minds. So how do I show up to be with them? And again and again, I realized empathy works. I don't think I'm right now. I think this country is where we want to convince and we want to find common ground through conversation and through argumentation. And I am, you know, all in favor of speaking up and speaking out. And you know, that's part of my life, too, but I actually think we're not. We're not able to do that effectively right now, because we're not. We're we don't have ways to deeply connect with each other right now, yeah, you know, some people might say something like this here, hearing us talk, it's like, well, there's many ways to give back.
MICHAEL DUNNE: There's many ways to try and impact change. You could volunteer for an organization; you could plant trees. You could donate money. This is rather unconventional. What would you say to people about why and what your hope is?
ESTHER TISHMAN: That's a great question. So, on the one hand, you know the idea of walking in pilgrimage, this one of the oldest things that humans have done in moments of duress and stress, and there's a way that, like my initial when the idea first came up for me, which was after, was March 1, the day after the moment in the Oval Office between Zelensky, Trump and Vance, and when I really felt like, who are we? This isn't who we are, what's going on. And I was like, I got Forrest Gump. It's like I was like; I just want to walk and I want to walk with people. I think there's something very primal about that that pretty much every major world tradition and philosophical system has, like capitalized upon, has used. So, this isn't, it's unconventional, but it's also ancient, and there's wisdom in it.
So that's one answer, maybe, or one response, but the other thing I would say is, a lot of what has been my life as an educator, as a chaplain, as a counselor, it's I really want to help other people find their voice and their authentic life path, right? You know. So how do we? All of us, each of us, operate on all four cylinders. You know, the world needs all of us to do, all of us to bring forward, all of us. Do you know what I mean? So, for me, the walk is the way. That's not true for everyone.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Logistically speaking, it's a big walk. I mean, are you ready for it, and you and your colleagues? Because obviously, it's one thing to say, we're going to walk to Washington, DC. It's another matter to do it in summer, because I believe you're starting in July, or something like that. I mean, what have you been doing to prepare yourself?
ESTHER TISHMAN: Okay, so first of all, you keep referring to my colleagues. So, there are a few people who, I mean, there are about 40 people who have said that they want to walk part of it. Okay, there's no down the hook to walk all of it yet, except for me. My hope is for others to join us. So, you know, at our website, Liberty Walks.org, you can find out more about the walk, and also you can sign up to walk part of it to be a driver of our vehicle. So, there's not, there's not this core of, like, a tight core of people who've all said, okay, and now we're training together. It's it. This is open and porous and hopefully enticing and enlivening for others to want to join in. How I'm preparing for it is, I'm walking. I mean, I am a runner, and in my like, fairly distant past, I've run a couple of marathons, but I am not a hiker. Okay? I have never, you know, I haven't done the Camino. I haven't walked the Pacific Crest Trail. I've never even really camped before. So, this is, foolhardy in certain ways. But I also, you know, trust, trust my body and trust my neighbors, and, you know, we're, we're putting it together.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Some of the people that have said that they want to join you. What have they told you about their motivation?
ESTHER TISHMAN: So, it's really interesting to me, the people who are energized by this have felt kind of a paralysis in the and from very different political perspectives, right? So, it's not all people. Aren't all the same kind of voters or nonvoters who have been drawn to this. But what I think has united people who want to walk is a sense of, on the one hand, feeling like I don't know what to do. Everything feels a little bit like, not quite right. And this sort of embodied engagement, I think, that sense of like activation, and also the permission to not have answers, but to actually that it's not like, either you have an answer and you know what to do, or you do nothing. It's like no you cannot know what to do and be engaged in an act of faith in the country and in the future unfolding. You cannot know what to do and still know that kindness and generosity and respect and curiosity, that these are valuable things and we can enact them. So there's been that kind of feeling of, I want to get in motion. And I think this sort of the embodied and mindful quality, appeals to the people that it appeals to.
MICHAEL DUNNE: You've mentioned this several times, this concept of a leap of faith. And I'm wondering, is that -whether people join you on the walk or not - is there something sort of, you know, I don't know, uplifting or something freeing about the idea of taking a leap of faith?
ESTHER TISHMAN: Oh my gosh, yes. Don't you think there is, there's something about, I mean, I think this is also what draws people to, you know, mindfulness practices. I'm also a mindfulness teacher. I think it’s what people love about live theater or live music, going to events where you're like, you kind of know what you're going to get, but you also just open yourself up to whatever you receive, and it's exciting, and it's never the same thing twice. There's something about being able to orient toward the future that we humans deeply need. And I think a lot of the political messaging that we are all receiving and creating, is that the only way to turn toward the future. And I'm not sure that plans actually help us turn toward the future. I think turning toward the future faith is required. And I use the word with a small f, like little faith, not like great, big faith, although that may be true, but it is that leap.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Yeah. Will Liberty Walks exist after this walk?
ESTHER TISHMAN: That's a great question. Yes. I mean, we are a nonprofit, so we incorporate as a nonprofit. We are financing, we're raising funds to finance a camper van, an RV. So one question that will present itself at the end of this walk is, do we sell the van back and then, you know, figure out what to do with the proceeds and what the next step is, or do we keep the van and then we plan more events? I don't have the answer yet to what the future of Liberty Walks is, but I could see that the walk might have legs.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Esther, my last question; as you're preparing to head out, you know, what's, what's your final message for people listening about the walk, about leaps of faith, about just, you know, like you said, getting in motion in general.
ESTHER TISHMAN: I would say, don't let the perfect be an enemy of the good. There's something energizing about just putting yourself out there in whatever way inspires you. The world really needs all of us to kind of bring ourselves forward and to bring all the bits of us, the bits we don't like, as well as the bits that we do like. So, finding ways to really, really touch into who you are and what you want, and to meet your life squarely. The world needs us all to do that right now.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Well, Esther Tishman, who is the founder and director of Liberty Walks and will soon be walking from Eugene to Washington, DC, obviously, wish you best of luck and thank you so much for talking with us.
ESTHER TISHMAN: Thank you so much. Michael, my pleasure.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Let's hear now from Sajina Shrestha about a new art exhibit on campus at the U of O. Sajina Shrestha, a reporter here with us at KLCC. Thanks for coming out and talking to me.
SAJINA SHRESTHA: Thank you for having me. Michael.
MICHAEL DUNNE: So, you did this story about the indigenous LGBTQ artists and Futurism exhibit at the U of O. Tell us about it.
SAJINA SHRESTHA: Yeah. So, it's an exhibit that is part of a larger project between the curators, Anthony Hudson and Felix Furby. It started as this idea they had after this other exhibit that opened at the I believe, ChaChalu Museum and Cultural Center in Grand Ronde. And that first exhibit was centered around Shopkin, who was a trans feminine at Fauci Kalapu, and ancestor who lived around the 1800s and that exhibit was focused on talking about how queerness had existed and isn't a new concept in indigenous cultures. So, this exhibit is kind of a sequel of sorts. Okay, it's talking more about where do we go from here, what does our future look like, and what do we as the indigenous queer artists, look like in it.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Okay, the theme. What does it mean to exist at the intersection of indigeneity and queerness? How is that presented in the work? And what did it mean to you?
SAJINA SHRESTHA: Yeah, so it's presented as a sort of combination, I would say, queerness and indigeneity, not either or I see it in one of the artists drawing more Joe's beadwork on their binder, sort of bringing art into their process of top surgery. In geo Neptune's corn sculpture, where the rainbow-colored corn is interwoven in Wabanaki weaving patterns with crows surrounding it. In their words, the crows act like any looming predators waiting to steal from their corn, which means their inside-ness. And so, all the pieces do a sort of combining and marrying of queerness and indigeneity where, which is what the artists and the curators want. It's a sort of statement about how these two forms of identity can exist as one and don't need to be in separate spheres.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Interesting. I know you spoke with one of the artists that was there. What did they tell you both about their work and just the overall importance of the exhibit?
SAJINA SHRESTHA: Yeah. So, I spoke to Steph Little Bird, who's part of the Chinook and Kalapuya tribes, and she said that this exhibit was important in shattering what people thought of when they thought of indigenous folks. She said that in her work, where she works with a lot of nonnative folks. She saw that many people, when they think of indigenous folks, they think of someone in quote, unquote olden days. She said that indigenous folks aren't front and center in the present and future. So, with her work and her commitment to indigenous futurism, she wants people to break away from what they think of when they think of indigenous folks. You know, she wants to bring in a little joy and fun, which she kind of does with this vending machine work that she has where you can, like, slot in coins and get different stickers and collectibles that talk about, like, two spirit ancestors or two spirit-ness and just queer indigeneity as a whole.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Okay, given what's happening at the federal level, and there's so much pressure on marginalized groups, coming from the President on down, give us your take on this exhibit, and perhaps that it has even more significance today than it might have had, you know, a decade ago.
SAJINA SHRESTHA: For me, it's, I definitely think it has more significance. I think it's like a form of reaffirming and standing your ground. It's kind of like redrawing when the government tries to erase history. It's the, I believe it's the embodiment of, I mean, I believe it's the embodiment of, we're here. We're indigenous and queer. Get used to it. Basically, Roy Mojo's beadwork binder for me, from what I understand, when someone binds their chest, it's usually to flatten it and present a flat chest under the shirt. It does this sort of hidden work of erasing gender dysphoria for so many people by helping them see themselves as a flatter chested person. And Rowan brings the binder, kind of to the forefront by adding beadwork to it. It adds like that. Adds a little nice flair to it, almost as if to say, No, you will look at me and acknowledge the work I do. And by association, the trans or gender non-conforming person wearing it.
MICHAEL DUNNE: interesting. So, give us the stats. How long is it going to be on display? You know, how can folks go visit it?
SAJINA SHRESTHA: Here locally, it's at the Museum of Natural and Cultural History at the University of Oregon here in Eugene, and it'll be on show till early January of next year – 2026.
MICHAEL DUNNE: outstanding Sajina Shrestha, who is a reporter with us here at KLCC, really appreciate your work, and really appreciate you coming in and talking to us about this fascinating exhibit.
SAJINA SHRESTHA: Thank you for having me, Michael.
MICHAEL DUNNE: That's the show for today. All episodes of Oregon on the record are available as a podcast atklcc.org
Tomorrow on the show, our semi-regular check in with Senator Ron Wyden, who's in town to talk about legislation and opposition to the ever-increasing radical agenda of the Trump administration. A quick note. Last week, we highlighted how tariffs are impacting Central Oregon businesses. If you're a local business owner, we want to hear from you. Are you already experiencing impacts from tariffs, or are you expecting impacts in the near future? Let us know by emailing us at questions@klcc.org and we'll read your comments on the show. I'm Michael Dunne, and this has been Oregon on the record from KLCC. Thanks for listening.
