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MICHAEL DUNNE: I'm Michael Dunne. If you Google the New York Times list of the top 100 movies of the 21st Century, the first entry is the list itself, and then the next two or 3000 are posts and articles arguing about who made it and who didn't. Well, as movie lovers and amateur critics, we couldn't resist the opportunity to talk about this list and talk about our favorites and critique some of the selections, and we're bringing along an actual expert, one of the department heads of the U of O Cinema Studies program. So, get your popcorn ready and join us today on the show as we talk about the list the art of movie making and the state of cinema today, Oregon, on the record goes little Hollywood, and we've saved a seat for you. Peter Alilunas, who is an assistant professor and associate department head for the Department of Cinema Studies at the University of Oregon and our own Kendra Schertell, our arts and culture reporter. Thanks to you both for coming on and chatting.
KENDRA SCHERTELL/ PETER ALILUNAS: It's my pleasure. Thanks.
MICHAEL DUNNE: We're here to talk about the New York Times top 100 films of the 21st Century, which was, I imagine a very difficult task to winnow down just 100. Peter, I'm going to start with you looking at the list. I mean, what struck you did you look at and say, yeah, they pretty much got it right or was it, Boy, I tell you what these, these New York Times folks, they don't know what they're talking about. What did you kind of, what were your general impressions about the list?
PETER ALILUNAS: Well, I think the first thing to think about with the list is the methodology of it. So, the New York Times polled 500 people who work in some capacity in the film industry and asked them to make a list of their 10 best films of the last 25 years. So not in order or in a rank, just the 10 top films, okay? And then the New York Times took those 500 results, and they created a 100-film list saying, you know, these films appeared on these lists, and then we'll count them up, and we'll create a top 100 so nobody who filled out the survey said, This is my number one choice. This is my number 100 choice. Yeah, they basically just said, these are my top, these are my 10 best films of the last 25 years. So, thinking about it from that perspective is really interesting, because what it is it's a collection of films that essentially, 500 industry workers think are, you know, quote, unquote, the best of the 25 last 25 years.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Yeah, when you look at the top 10, do you think, gosh, if they were, if they had given you that survey? Do you think that you know, your top 10 would look like it for folks who maybe haven't seen the list? I mean, we're talking about, you know, number one was Parasite. Mulholland Drive was number two, There Will Be Blood. What was that top 10 like for you?
PETER ALILUNAS: Well, it's interesting, because anybody can go create an account with the New York Times, even a free account and do their own version of this list. You can, you can go select your 10 best films, and you could rank them, if you like. But their interface actually does not rank them, so you can make your own 10, which is fun. Yeah, my, my personal 10 does not match the 10 that's the 10 on this list, but there are some overlaps, and frankly, I wasn't surprised by the 10 choices on the list. If you go back and look five years ago at similar lists that were made the top 100 films of the 21st Century so far, most of these films were actually on that list. They just didn't include the ones released since then, like Parasite. So, five years ago, Mulholland Drive was pretty consistently the number one film, and now it's number two behind Parasite. Yeah. So, it's a fun experiment, and anybody can do it, and I think it's fun to do it. I think it's fun to think, to reflect back and think about the films you thought were. The best in this century so far.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Kendra, when you were looking at this list, I mean, like, like, for me, I have to admit it, it jogged my memory. I forgot, oh yeah, I remember that one that was pretty good. What were your overall impressions when you looked at it?
KENDRA SCHERTELL: Yeah. I mean, it kind of looks like a lot of comfort films on here, rather than like, the best of the best. Okay, but I haven't seen a good chunk of them, actually, and I'm pretty disappointed in myself.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Well, and that was something that kind of caught me off guard. You know, Peter, I'll admit I saw probably 52 out of these 100 movies. What's it like for someone like you who teaches people about cinema? Do you like going to the movies? Do you like to go just as entertainment, or do you go as somebody who is going to, you know, kind of almost, in some ways, put on a critique hat?
PETER ALILUNAS: Well, I think it's all those things. I love going to the movies. I love supporting movie theaters. I am a big proponent of people seeing movies in theaters, so we can keep that industry alive, and please support your local movie theaters, especially, yeah, independent movie theaters. I go to movies for all kinds of reasons. I go for fun. I'm a cinephile. I love watching movies. It's also my profession. I probably saw somewhere between, I don't have an exact number, but probably somewhere between 80 and 90. And 90 of the films on this list. You know, some interesting things that stand out. And let me just say, how many did you say you saw – 52? That's excellent. That's more than half. Some things that stand out on the list. You know, 26 of the films are in a language other than English, which I think is very telling about the direction that popular film has gone this century. There are quite a few films that have won the Best Picture Oscar. There's 12 of those, but there's 44 films on the list that were nominated for the Best Picture Oscar, and there's six best international feature film Oscar winners on the list, so those non-English films and 12 nominees. So, this really is a pretty Global list, particularly compared to other lists you might see out there of the best films, there's six Palme D'or winners and 27 Palme D'or nominees on the list. So, these are particular kinds of films. They're what you might call not quite art films, but not quite blockbuster films. Most of them are in between zones that are sort of like well made, slightly independent, but art artistically minded dramatic films. You're not going to see a lot of horror films or science fiction or comedy, and certainly you're not going to see blockbuster kind of franchise films on this list, in fact, that's probably the most telling thing is the almost complete absence of the mega franchise blockbuster cinema. There's no Star Wars, there's no James Bond, no Fast and the Furious.
MICHAEL DUNNE: The Marvel Universe is mostly absent here as well. Kendra, you brought up a great point. You know, some of these films never were even in theaters. They were streaming, you know. And talk about that. Talk about, sort of how you viewed it, how it's sort of changing the movie industry.
KENDRA SCHERTELL: Well, I mean, at a first glance, it looks like a lot of them are kind of the earlier 2000s, not as recent. And so it just makes me wonder if streaming has had an influence on that and it also feels like it's become increasingly more about money and business rather than art and telling a story. So, I mean, I'm glad that there's not a lot of those action superhero movies on here.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Peter, I'm gonna go to you. Okay, it almost, it almost feels like in the 21st Century, especially if you're an actor or director or something like that. I mean, it's like you almost have to make a choice. Do you put your foot in the art house type movies, of which, like you said, a lot of those represent great quality, as this list talks about? But then, of course, you know, something like the Marvel Universe is you know, those are the ones that just continue to set records. Is that kind of a dividing line?
PETER ALILUNAS: It’s a good question. And the list is really mostly populated by kind of an in-between middle zone, okay, not sure what the future of that zone is. To be honest, there's some blockbuster franchise films which are not on this list. There's only one Marvel film on the list, which is Black Panther, and there's one DC Comics film, which is the Dark Knight. Otherwise, there's nothing. Yeah, there's one film on this list that was strictly streaming only, which was the film Roma - everything else had a theatrical release. So, I don't know. It's hard to say down the road what those middle zone films are? Will those go completely to streaming? Will they stay somewhat in theaters? I hope they stay in theaters. Will theaters be only for mega blockbuster franchise films? I hope not, but yeah, the list shows that it kind of does.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Well, let's get personal here. Peter, is there a film on this list that you think? No, it didn't deserve, in my opinion, to be in the top 100. And of course, vice versa was there was there a film or two that you thought, Boy, they missed the mark here. This should be on the list?
PETER ALILUNAS: I don't begrudge any of the films that made the list. Okay, because I think that people's, you know, people's cinema pleasures are wonderful, and I celebrate them all. Sure, there are some interesting omissions that I thought do stand out. So, Spike Lee, the director, the film director, Spike Lee, is not on this list at all, yeah. And he made two films in this century that I thought were really, really superb, The 25th hour in 2002 and Black Klansmen in 2018 which I thought were both excellent. I was surprised those two films were not on this list. The filmmaker, Martin McDonough, is missing from the list. He made The Banshees of Inisherin a couple years ago, and then the film In Bruges in 2000…
MICHAEL DUNNE: I'm going to stop you right there, because In Bruges is definitely on my list. It should have been here. Now, my wife claims I have a healthy man crush on Colin Farrell. I also loved him in The Lobster but, yeah, I thought In Bruges was an AMAZING film. And I'm like, where's that one?
PETER ALILUNAS: Yeah, that's a notable surprise. And then another director that I thought was very surprised is Alejandro González Iñárritu, who won the Oscar for the film Birdman in 2014 and then the film The Revenant with Leonardo DiCaprio in 2015 was a groundbreaking piece of cinema. Not on the list. There's, there's a bunch of sort of, I'd call them like head scratchers that are just missing, like La La Land in 2016. You know, no film at all from the year 2000 is on the list. It's like, it didn't happen.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Kendra, what about you? I'm going to move to you. Is there a movie that, in the last 25 years that you were saying, hey, wait a second, this one should be there.
KENDRA SCHERTELL: I have a long list. Okay,
so, I love La Vie en Rose. It's a biopic, and I just thought it was so good. I mean, I don't know if you've seen it, but it's about Edith Piaf, and it was so well done. And the actress, Marion card Cartier, won the Oscar for that. Yeah. It was so good, yeah. And then Coraline, it's a cartoon, I know, well done, Claymation.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Peter, both, both Kendra and I agree Spirited Away was an amazing animated film.
PETER ALILUNAS: Yes, and Miyazaki, the filmmaker is truly one of a kind, completely unique. If people haven't seen Miyazaki films, start with Spirited Away and don't stop there.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Kiki's Delivery Service is another one he did, which is truly, truly amazing. We’re talking to Peter Alilunas, who is an associate professor and department head at the cinema studies program at the U of O, and Kendra Schertell, our own arts and culture reporter here at KLCC, I think we all have our guilty pleasure a movie that maybe isn't we know it's not a great film, but we absolutely love.
PETER ALILUNAS: I don't even believe in guilty pleasures. For me there, there's a couple probably on my personal list that I would encourage people to watch. So, the first one is a very small Richard Linklater movie from a few years ago about baseball called Everybody Wants Some, and it's been a little bit forgotten about, but that that movie really captures the joy of a group of young guys who are just about to start college, and they're on the college baseball team, and it's, it's really just pure cinema joy. So I, that's probably the one I would recommend for people that's on my personal list.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Peter, I'm wondering too, maybe in one of your classes, you know, do you talk to students about and maybe our listeners could glean some tips on this. You sound like you're very sort of democratic about going to see movies, which is great. But I'm wondering, are there tips that you think, you know, general movie consumers can kind of, you know, glean from you about how to go into a movie. Is there kind of a, you know, do a little research? Should you be paying more attention to who directs a film versus who the actors are, or something like that?
PETER ALILUNAS: Those are good questions. I think something that stands out on this list actually is the amount of experience the filmmakers have beyond the director. If you look closely at this list, virtually every film in the top 50 at least, has a crew of very experienced filmmakers. And I know the average member of the public is not going to start looking at who the editor is or the cinematographer for the production designer, but if you do start to notice patterns in the films that you like watching you will start to see the same people pop up in those positions. And so, yes, the directors are great. There's, there's really, really good directors on this list, you know, David Fincher and the Cohen brothers and Paul Thomas Anderson. But there's also really great cinematographers and really great editors, and those are, those are the skill positions that you're seeing on the screen too. So that's one thing I would suggest for people to take a closer look at.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Kendra, you know, I'm wondering too you and I are of different ages. We've talked about this before, you know, and you're much younger than I am. Are you kind of excited about the direction of the movie industry? And what I'm asking you is, specifically, like we just talked about, you know, is this idea of like, do you enjoy going to the movies? Obviously, it's very easy to sit at home. There are so many great access points to amazing entertainment. But you know, what do you think is still worth it to go to a movie theater and not just for the size and the sound, but also just that sense of community?
KENDRA SCHERTELL: Yeah, well, I went to see Wicked recently, and that was really nice in the theater with a bunch of people. It felt, you know, you're connecting over this movie or this musical. But I'm a big fan of the couch too. I do like sitting at home in my own comfortable space and watching films, I don't know if I'm a big fan of old style, like, you know, cinematography. I'm kind of over CGI, okay, and blue screens and green screens. I like, you know, the classic set up.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Peter, I go to you on that because obviously there has been so much technology, and certainly AI is another thing that's really just beginning to sort of take over the entertainment landscape. But I'm wondering, do you think there's still obviously a place for the movie house? And you've talked about this a little bit during our conversation, but also this idea that there's still a place for maybe old school cinematography, old school, you know, stunts and effects that are real, as opposed to just something created via a computer.
PETER ALILUNAS: Yes, and I think audiences are actually hungry for that. Speaking to what Kendra said a second ago, I do think audiences are very hungry for that kind of filmmaking and that sort of authenticity on the screen. And yes, I just got to say again, just support your local movie theaters as much as possible. You know, if you're in Eugene, please support the metro and the art house and the other local theaters because they're a vital part of our community, and they're a vital part of what makes our community unique.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Peter, I'm gonna stick with you on this, and you did a great job explaining how they got those lists. Do you ever have debates with colleagues and stuff about movies and, and, and, you know, I guess what I'm asking is, is, is that one of the things that I think is great about lists is like we're having conversations now. Do you think that, yes, people get in arguments and debates, but do you think the idea of creating a list really helps kind of almost start a dialog around how important movies are in our lives?
PETER ALILUNAS: Yes, absolutely. Let me. Let me start by saying I'm laughing because film professors, when you get us into a room together, yes, we will absolutely debate this list in the fall people. We will definitely talk about it and probably compare our notes. And one thing we will all agree on is that discussions like this in the public sphere about movies are wonderful because they get people talking about them. And this list is great because it's that smaller tier of films. Again, it's not the blockbuster franchises, and those films actually don't need our support. They're fine. They're going to make 700-800 a billion, a billion and a half dollars. Avatar doesn't need our help. It's these smaller films by these smaller, lesser-known filmmakers, and talking about them is great, and it's because it just gives people a chance to discover things they haven't seen, or maybe they forgot about them. Maybe they, maybe they see a film on this list and they say, Oh, I remember 17 years ago wanting to see, you know, whatever that that film is, sure. I'll check it out now.
KENDRA SCHERTELL: …sorry. I take back my La Vie en Rose then because that was a big blockbuster, and I replaced it with Lars And The Real Girl. I feel like that's underrated.
MICHAEL DUNNE: See, we've already had to change the list in just 22 minutes. Well, we could go on and on both of you. We could go on for hours, but we can't, because we're restricted by time. Peter Alilunas, who is an associate professor and associate department head with the Department of cinema studies at the U of O and our own. Kendra Schertell, I really appreciate both of you coming on and talking about this and gosh, you know, let's, let's hope we can talk about the next 25 years.
KENDRA SCHERTELL/ PETER ALILUNAS: My pleasure. Thanks for having me. Thank you so much.
MICHAEL DUNNE: That's the show for today. All episodes of Oregon On The Record are available as a podcast at KLCC.org. Monday on the show, we'll take you behind the scenes at Hayward Field to talk about what it takes to put on a major track and field event like the Prefontaine classic. I'm Michael Dunn, and this has been Oregon on the record from KLCC. Thanks for listening.
