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MICHAEL DUNNE: I'm Michael Dunne. Oregon sports is booming right now. A ton of national attention is focused on the state, and a ton of money is being made. And no, I'm not even talking about national title contender U of O football, and I'm not talking about the better-than-expected Portland Trailblazers. I'm talking about the women's sports that are trending and increasing fan spending. Today on the show, you'll hear from our colleague up at OPB, Kyra Buckley, about her reporting that shows women's sports is becoming a really important part of the state economy, including the new WNBA franchise, the national profile of the sports bra and the success of the Portland Thorns. Then we'll finish out the show by reading a letter from a listener about a special holiday memory. Kyra Buckley, a business and economy reporter for OPB, Oregon Public Broadcasting. Kyra, thank you so much for coming on and talking with us.
KYRA BUCKLEY: Thanks for having me.
MICHAEL DUNNE: I really enjoyed a recent story you did - Oregon's economy is struggling, but its women's sports industry could be a lifeline. Boy. Talk about this story. Talk about your reporting.
KYRA BUCKLEY: I feel so fortunate that I am got to be at the right place at the right time to report this story. So first I should mention that I was born and raised here in the state of Oregon, and I kind of got to see this story growing up. I grew up going to Oregon women's basketball games. My dad took me, and there was always this very grassroots support for our women's teams here in Oregon, even though they didn't get the same media attention as some of the men's teams, and obviously we didn't have professional women's teams when I was growing up. I don't want to age myself, but that just wasn't a part of the ecosystem here in Oregon. Fast forward to being a reporter covering business and the economy here in Portland, starting in 2023 I kept hearing excitement first around many people know of the sports bra, the famous women's sports bar here in Portland, that really showed people what the power of women's sports could do on the business side. And I think that really helped kind of brand Portland, if you will, as this haven for women's sports. So, I started talking to people about it, both in the business community and in the women's sports community. And I watched as Portland landed a WNBA expansion team. And I just kept showing up at events and really just asking people like, what do we expect this to do for the state? And I just kind of kept hearing like that this is both a symbolic show of what Oregon is about, that we show up for our women's sports, and also that it is a really bright spot in kind of a dark economic time right now.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Yeah, are there particular conditions in Portland that lead to this, this acceleration of interest and spending on women's sports.
KYRA BUCKLEY: I Yeah, you know, one of the interesting things about Portland is the interest and the support for women's sports and women athletes that already existed, and the folks at Raj sports, that's the investment firm that is purchasing the WNBA team and already owns the women's soccer team here in Portland, they've been very clear that they are capitalizing on the support that already existed. And when you look at the history here in Oregon of women's sports, I mean, you start at the high school and college level. And the traditional support for our women playing at Oregon State University, at the University of Oregon, University of Portland, and the fact that folks show up for those games. They have higher attendance than a lot of women's sports programs across the country. Same story for our high school teams, that support already existed. And also, you know, I will say that women's sports culture is very inclusive. It's very queer friendly. The WNBA is led mostly by women of color, and I think Oregon is just at that place where that's something that folks crave. They want to be a part of that fandom. And so that just really collided at a time that the folks at Raj sports said, Hey, we want to put some money towards women's sports, and Portland seems like a pretty great place to do it.
MICHAEL DUNNE: The WNBA has exploded recently. Many people point to its stars, and certainly, you know, Caitlin Clark was it was a big part of that. Of course, our own, Sabrina Ionescu as well, from the University of Oregon. But is it? Is it a combination of great players, obviously, and the talent, but it, but is it also the fact that, you know, I mean other sports, other, traditionally, men's sports, or male dominant sports might be kind of petering out a little bit. I don't think baseball is nearly as popular as it was decades ago. Other sports, even the NFL, which is so ubiquitous, but it has its issues and problems. I'm wondering is there, is there kind of a, you know, one goes down a little bit while another ascends.
KYRA BUCKLEY: That's an interesting thought. I think. I mean, I will say that what I've seen, particularly on the women's side, is that a lot of the professional leagues in particular, and then the universities have followed, have been able to negotiate better media deals, where people are just able to get more eyeballs on women's sports, and the more they watch, the more they want to watch. Yeah, and I think that's happening also, I point to, of course, people know Caitlin Clark and Angel Reese, they've done a lot for the WNBA. But I'd actually point back to the 2020 season, when sports basically stopped, but the WNBA said, we're going to still have a product. And they flew everybody, I believe it was to Florida, and they still had their season. And that also happened during a lot of the racial justice protests. And like I mentioned, the WNBA is mostly women of color. There's a lot of queer representation, and it just was this cultural moment where people were all home. They wanted sports to watch. And here were these women that were not just playing amazing basketball, they also were stepping up to the cultural moment. And I think that from that point, we really have seen investment on the business side just grow. And Portland just kind of said, Hey, we're like prime ready to go for this investment to come here.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Turning to women's soccer because, you know, for many of us, especially American soccer fans, the women's team, the national team that plays in the Olympics and in the World Cup, let's just face it, has been better than the men's team. And I'm wondering, you know, again, with eyeballs on it, and we all remember, you know, Brandy Chastain way back in the day, and how they were so dominant, has that helped propel, you know, Major League Soccer for women, but also there in Oregon, because, you know, you're getting the best of the best. I mean, the quality speaks for itself.
KYRA BUCKLEY: Yeah, absolutely. I really started reporting this story talking about basketball in the WNBA, and people kept pointing back to the thorns. And not just the thorns, also the support at the University of Portland, many people may know of a little-known player named Megan Rapinoe! We have stars that have been coming out of Oregon in multiple different sports for decades. And so when you look at the thorns, you know, I think they're kind of they don't always get the attention that they maybe deserve, for what they have done, for the Providence Park area in Portland, and just for being able to have so many amazing sporting events that are family friendly, that young, you know, girls and boys can go and see players and say, Oh, I can do that someday, too. That's been happening in Portland for more than a dozen years, and they have the thorns consistently. Are either at the top of the NWSL for attendance, or they're very near, close, and they averaged around 18,000 people per game this last season, and that's numbers that's much higher than other sports, or other men's sports, to be quite frank, and the thorns have been doing those types of numbers for years, so that support already existed. And it's almost like that story was just waiting to be told. And the folks at Raj sports were like, we're going to come in and buy this team, and we're going to start talking about, you know, what they've been doing for this area of Portland, and that has just trickled out to going back and looking at the history of what our universities and high schools have done as well.
MICHAEL DUNNE: You know, Portland and the state in general, it's a blue state, pretty progressive, and a blue region, obviously, in the Portland metro area, and there are voices that have always said something like, oh, when, when athletes, you know, make political statements, it hurts the bottom line. And you've heard people say, you know, kind of shut up and dribble sort of, sort of catch phrases. But I'm wondering, you know, the WNBA and Women's Soccer has been very upfront about social issues and whatnot. But obviously. Absolutely, it hasn't hurt their bottom line at all, has it?
KYRA BUCKLEY: No, I think in a way, it's actually helped them meet this moment where we have seen just such rapid societal change in the last decade. The pandemic really accelerated. So many things that maybe would have taken a decade or more to play out happened in, you know, two years. And I think that you know, most women will tell you, you know, you are always kind of coming from behind. There are always barriers to break down, or folks from any marginalized community. And I think that, you know, professional women's athletes, they've really never had the luxury of just shutting up and dribbling. They've always had to advocate for themselves, and that's coming at a time where I think there is just more awareness in general around workplace conditions, around equal pay, around making workplaces just more equitable for all types of employees, whether that's parents or people that are taking care of elderly, elderly parents. You know, it's, it's this cultural shift, and the women playing on these professional teams, you know, they're living it. And they almost, even if they were quiet, their actions, I think, would speak louder than their words sometimes do, although they're certainly not quiet with their words as well.
MICHAEL DUNNE: You know, speaking of Economics and Business, one of the things that that still isn't an issue with women's sports is they ain't paid as much as the men are. And I'm wondering, you know, in terms of that, do you see out into the horizon a time when, especially in the WNBA, which, which, which does well economically, but obviously, you know, Sabrina, I ask you, does not make nearly as much as the 12th player on the Portland Trail Blazers, you know. And I'm wondering, for in your research, are we getting to a point where that can start to close a bit.
KYRA BUCKLEY: Yeah, you know, I think that when you look at the NBA and the WNBA, you know, the WNBA is still very young, sure, and so one of the things that they're tackling right now in the current contract negotiations, which are a little contentious, but it is that idea of revenue sharing, so I don't know. Is Sabrina Ionescu gonna make as much as Steph Curry? Probably not, but we could be moving towards a time where the WNBA has a revenue sharing model that is more similar to the NBA, so that the women playing are getting the same share of the revenue they're pulling in as the men, as the men's players do now. Will that happen in the next contract? Nobody knows they are still at the negotiating table, but I think that's what a lot of folks are advocating for when we're looking at the next level of pay equity. Is that the money that these leagues are bringing in that the revenue sharing model needs to match the effort that the players are putting in, and the fact that, you know, the league would not have a product if they didn't have the players.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Sure, sure. Kyra, my last question for you is this, you mentioned the sports bra earlier, and I'm wondering, are we starting to see that that has become such a such an institution. And I'm wondering, is that exportable? Are we going to start to see more drinking establishments, bars, sports bars, bars that follow that model, that really cater to the idea that we know lots of patrons are going to want to come to our establishment to watch big screen TVs showing WNBA, women's soccer, women's college sports, that sort of a thing.
KYRA BUCKLEY: I sure hope so. But it's a tall order, right? Like even the sports bra, it is packed. When you go for a big game, you will have a hard time getting a table, okay? But if you go on a regular Wednesday, it's still just a, you know, a regular bar that just happens to have all women's sports being shown on TV. I think that it really depends. I did a story when I first moved back to the Portland area, I actually went down to Salem there was a bar that was trying to do something similar, you know, and they didn't. They weren't able to make it work. So, I don't know if it's exportable. I think we're going to have to see what the limitations are. But I do think that we what we are seeing is that where the support already exists, in those cities and neighborhoods that are clamoring for more women's sports, that a place like the sports bra is very successful, not just as a place to go watch the game, but as a gathering place, as an inclusive place for queer folks, for other women's sports fans, to come and meet and, you know, share a beer, or, if you're me, share a nonalcoholic cocktail and enjoy whatever sports are on TV at the time.
MICHAEL DUNNE: There you go. There you go. She's Kyra Buckley reports on the economy. In business for OPB Kyra, thank you so much for coming on and talking with us.
KYRA BUCKLEY: Thanks for having me.
MICHAEL DUNNE: We're going to finish out the show, which is our last before Christmas, with a letter we received from a listener. It's a little something special for the holidays. You've likely heard us ask for your favorite holiday memories over these past few weeks, and we received a very nice letter from Richard chasm of Olalla, Oregon. To read it for you. Is KLC sees program director Jason Brown.
JASON BROWN: Is Santa Claus real, a holiday memory by Richard Chasm of Olalla, Oregon. Here it is Christmas, and once again, we face the age-old question, Is Santa Claus real? I think so. In fact, I saw him in the flesh one Christmas out in Olalla. It happened like this. Back in the late 1950s we used to have a big square dance almost every Saturday night in the Olalla community hall, Herb Northcroft was the caller, as the adults did square dances and the older children would dance a Virginia reel or minuet. During the Thanksgiving party, the young mothers and older girls gathered up all the small children and had them write a letter to Santa Claus. They were told that Santa Claus was very busy and they should ask for just one thing they really wanted. I later realized that these letters were given to the parents, who then bought the gifts, wrapped them and hid them for the Christmas party. The day of the big Christmas dance finally arrived, and looking back, my dad was acting strangely all day I was 10 years old and busy thinking about all the fudge peanut brittle and cookies that would be available at the party when we got there, I ran straight into the building to beat my brother Tom to the goodies. My father joined the men over at the old one room schoolhouse, where they had a little fire and discussed manly business. I found out much later, this manly business was mostly smoking cigarettes and sipping whiskey in peace. Everybody was dressed up in fancy square dance duds, shiny cowboy boots and colorful petticoats. When the dance started, I was with the bigger kids off to the side, doing a reel, but I noticed several times. My dad was absent. Right in the middle of the third or fourth dance, there was a pounding on the back door of the rickety old dance barn. The door flew open, and wouldn't you know it? Here comes Santa Claus. It was my father. Of course, the little kids didn't know this, and they went wild, shouting, Santa Claus. Santa Claus is here. Others ran to their mothers and grabbed their skirts, pointing. Santa made a little speech, saying that although Christmas was still a few days away, he had a busy schedule, flying all over the world, and he came to a Lala early because there were so many good little boys and girls, and he wanted to make sure they got their Christmas presents. He said the kids who asked for puppies or ponies needed to discuss this with their fathers. Santa started pulling gifts out of his bag and calling out the names of the tykes gathered round. Many of the gifts were wrapped in the colored comics from a Sunday newspaper. You should have seen their faces as they were named. It became pandemonium as colorful wrapping paper was scattered all over the hall, as the kids got the presents, they asked for in their letters friends and neighbors in this cynical world of politics and troubles, Santa Claus had some true believers in the hall that night later, I asked Dad about Santa Claus. He said there was a man many centuries ago named Nicholas who became a saint because of his generosity over the centuries, Saint Nicholas became Santa Claus. My father told me Santa Claus is a spirit, the spirit of generosity and forgiveness. He said, a spirit never dies, and can be everywhere. When you put on the red Santa suit, you accept that spirit and become Santa Claus. He also said it was a lot of fun to be Santa Claus, and one should never pass up the opportunity to enjoy the look of Wonder on a small child's face. That is good enough for me. Santa Claus is real. I saw him once out in Olalla, Oregon.
MICHAEL DUNNE: That was KLCC’s Jason Brown reading his Santa Claus reel a holiday memory by Richard Chasm of Olalla. That's the show for today. All episodes of Oregon On the Record are available as a podcast at KLCC.org. We'll be off for the remainder of the week, and we'll be back next week with look backs at the year that was 2025 I'm Michael Dunne, host of Oregon On The Record. Thanks for listening.
