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MICHAEL DUNNE: I'm Michael Dunne. Testing students on what they're learning is a time-honored tradition in Oregon. We test for all sorts of things like math competency and reading comprehension. It helps policymakers, administrators and teachers better understand how the curriculum is working. What Oregon hasn't traditionally done is survey students about their attitudes and thoughts about their overall education experience. Well, that changed recently. Today on the show, my colleague at OPB, Elizabeth Miller joins us to talk about a recent wide-ranging survey of more than 180,000 Oregon students to get their perspective on school and their learning experience. Her findings are rather eye opening. Then we'll finish out the show hearing about how Bend has now joined with other cities to ban Flock cameras. Elizabeth Miller, who covers education for Oregon Public Broadcasting. Elizabeth, always great to talk to you. Thanks so much for coming on.
ELIZABETH MILLER: Yeah. Thanks for having me again.
MICHAEL DUNNE: I read with interest your story and listen to your story about this survey for Oregon students. And let's start with this. Can you kind of explain to our audience what the SEED survey is?
ELIZABETH MILLER: Yeah, so SEED stands for Student Educational Equity development survey. And what that means is the state wants to find out how students feel about school, like, what their experience is like. And this is different from, you know, those state tests, that state that students take, the state assessments that test their math, English, science, knowledge. This is actually a more you know. How are students feeling about school? Do they like school? Do they feel comfortable at school? Some of those questions that aren't as you know, the answer is not necessarily going to be the same for everybody, or there's no wrong or right answer, right? And so, most of the questions students had like it was a range of, you know, agree, mostly agree, probably, like, those kinds of things, that kind of survey was what this seed survey is.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Yeah, I think you even pointed out it's kind of it relies on what's called a domain score is that that explain that one as well?
ELIZABETH MILLER: Yeah, it's a little complicated. So basically, when you have students who are answering, you know, they could answer from a range of, you know, strongly disagree to strongly agree, you get a there's a lot of variation there. And so, what the domain score system does is kind of lump, you know, the strongly agree and agree in with each other. So, then we have a sense. It just gives us a little bit more of a sense of what this survey data tells us, because otherwise you just have a lot of, you know, strongly disagree, strongly agree this. This kind of summarizes things in a way that makes it easier to interpret. The Oregon Department of Education says, with the domain scores, I feel like we're seeing the state figure out, Okay, here's a better way to interpret what students are feeling and what they're saying and how they're responding to the survey, which is, I think the more we use this seed survey, and the more results we get from this, we'll just get even better understanding of how students feel about school in Oregon.
MICHAEL DUNNE: And I like the way in your story you put together, it makes it easy to digest as well. Is sort of the five big takeaways from the survey. So, I kind of wanted to, you know, take them one at a time. So, like, for example, in your story, the first big takeaway was, even though this was a very large story, or large survey, you point out the results are not representative of all students in Oregon.
ELIZABETH MILLER: Yeah, yeah. 180,000 students were, you know, took the survey, and that's whose results were we're looking at now, but that's only about 47% of quote, unquote, eligible students. ODE says, and so that you know it, and it ranges a lot, even in elementary school, where a larger percentage of students took the survey, compared to high school, where you only had about a third of students represented. And then, with Oregon's 197 school districts, you also have a range of how many students in each district participated. What I found was really interesting is that there's, there's about 10 of Oregon. In almost 200 school districts who had participation rates between 80 and 100% and as you'd expect, they were the small ones, Douglas County, Ontario, Dayville, Perrydale. And it's, you know, it's expected, but I think it's really interesting to look at this data and see such a wide, a wide range of districts and student ages represented. And the other thing to note is, like a lot of data in Oregon, this is kind of all we have. So, it's, it's not, it doesn't represent everyone, but it's what we have. And it is. It's something.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Your second takeaway was that, you know, a lot of students reflected that they, they still don't see themselves, sort of reflected in the class materials. Talk about that, yeah?
ELIZABETH MILLER: Well, first, I feel like I should talk about kind of why that's important. Yeah. And I feel like it's important because if students see themselves, they they're going to be more engaged in the in the materials. But for students who you know might see someone that looks different from them, it gives you a better sense of understanding of the people around you and the world around you. And so, it's in it. And then if we look at the you know what this does to achievement and things like that, it's all it's a good thing to have more materials that represent the students in these schools. And so, yeah, we had a higher percentage of elementary and middle schoolers that said they didn't have these represented, representational class materials. And what I'm what I think that kind of, I mean, it tells us that they don't see themselves in the materials. And I think it also gives elementary and middle school leaders across the state like, here's something we can we can focus on. Here's something we can do better on.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Yeah. And then one of the third big takeaway you address, is that you know, students are reporting they're learning a lot about Native Americans and tribes in Oregon.
ELIZABETH MILLER: Yeah, this was really interesting to me, because I one thing that I really value about this data point is that it kind of lets us see how something that happens at the legislature, this bill that passed in 2017 that required the state to develop curricula around the experience of Native Americans in Oregon, we see, okay, seems to actually be getting through to students. So that was that's really interesting to me. About 75% of fourth graders reported sometimes or often, learning about Native Americans, with more than 60% of students in those other late elementary and eighth grade also reporting learning about tribes. So, I think that's a really, that's kind of a point a point for Oregon, like, oh, this legislation happened, and now students are saying they're actually learning about tribes and Native Americans in Oregon.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Yeah, number four of the big takeaways was, was kind of two sides of a coin to a degree where they they're saying that. A lot of the students are saying they feel welcome at school, but do they like it?
ELIZABETH MILLER: Yeah, this is kind of one of those things where it's like, I mean, if you ask a student how they feel, they feel about school, it's kind of like a depends on what time of year you ask them, sure, depends of what time of day you ask them. It's kind of a duh question, but I thought it was really reassuring to see that students said they feel welcome and safe at school, and that they have adults at school who care about them. And but it also brought up to me something we talk about a lot, and I know I talked to you about last time I was here. Michael is just the attendance problem in Oregon and the fact that students are not showing up to school, and so this, it's one of those findings. I think one of the takeaways from this survey that raised more questions for me, which is like, Okay, so these kids feel they say they feel welcome, they say they feel safe, they say they have adults at school, then what's keeping them from actually going? And that's the story that I think me and every other education reporter in Oregon is going to continue to follow. The other part of this takeaway that I thought was interesting was that students didn't necessarily like going to school, and again, I think that speaks to the typical response you'd expect from kids when you ask them how they feel about school.
MICHAEL DUNNE: But then the last of the big takeaways you point out kind of some, I think good news to it is that most high school students are considering a four-year college.
ELIZABETH MILLER: Yeah, this is another kind of point that raises more questions for me, because kind of similar to attendance, we have a lot of students in this survey saying they are considering a four-year college. But that doesn't, doesn't necessarily, you know, bear out when we see enrollment and retention in four-year colleges or universities. And the thing that the Oregon Department of Education kind of broke out from this survey data is, you know, looking at these specific topics like post career planning and, you know, interest in post-secondary and according to ODE, male students, multiracial students and students with disabilities, all said they felt they didn't have access to career opportunities they wanted. So similar to students not seeing themselves in in class materials, I think this presents another like learning experience. So high school counselors, staff leaders, teachers can just say, how can we really make sure that students you know have some have seen some careers that they're interested in in their school experience, but also that they get connected to universities, colleges, if they're interested in doing that.
MICHAEL DUNNE: So okay, you know, the survey comes back. And I know a lot of times surveys occur, and then they might end up in a binder on a shelf somewhere. And I'm kind of wanting to, you know, talk to you about, you know, what do you think is the value of this data for the Oregon Department of Education and for schools in general. How do you think it could and should be used?
ELIZABETH MILLER: Yeah, that's a really interesting question, because I think, like we talk about a lot, we get a lot of data, and we state, you know, the state collects a lot of data. Schools collect a lot of data, but they don't collect data like this. And student voice is something that if you, if you ask any education official in the state, they'd say that student voice is important. And so, this survey, it's, it's a summation of a lot of student’s voices, of course, but it, it is student voice in a way that we don't get in a lot of data that's collected by the state or by districts or by schools. So, I would hope, and I I'm curious if this is the case, so I'll definitely be reaching out to, you know, districts and schools to see, like, how are you using this data. I know that the Oregon Department of Education wants to use this data, as you know, proof of concept for some of the things that they want to bring in and help. You know, everybody wants Oregon's education system to be better, right? And I think what this data does for the Oregon Department of Education is hopefully give them a little bit of like a you know, here's where we can go, here's how we can get better, here's how we can better support students. And like I said, it's not, it's not a complete data set. It doesn't necessarily tell us everything we want to know. Like, I think there's still a lot of kind of more granular, qualitative data sourcing that districts and schools should be doing in addition to this. But it's something, and it's a start, and it just gives us kind of an overview of how students are experiencing school in Oregon.
MICHAEL DUNNE: I'm wondering too. I haven't seen it, and I don't know if you have, is there a similar effort to survey teachers about their thoughts and opinions about how things are going in school, is that something that's done, is that something that might be done?
ELIZABETH MILLER: That's a really interesting question. And to be honest, I have, I don't know, okay, if there's an effort like that, but I you bet I will be asking, because I think you're right. I think a lot of one thing I'm really interested in, and this is kind of getting away from this student survey, so apologies. But one thing I've been really interested in is how teachers feel about the, you know, things that come down from the state level, and some of the things that they're being asked to do in their classrooms. And a big example of that is, is assessments themselves. I sure I've talked to a lot of students or a lot of teachers about how they feel about standardized tests, but I think it'd be super interesting to get similar to the seed survey data like a more like a broader range of teacher response and experience. So, thank you, for giving me a story idea.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Do the Covid years still impact students?
ELIZABETH MILLER: Yeah, I'm sure you do too, but I just think I'm so happy and grateful that I didn't have to absolutely all the time. But I think, I do think, you know, on an anecdotal level, Covid is still affecting students’ relationship to school. I believe that, and I hear that, and that is something that I think we'll be seeing for a while. But I think in this, in this through the survey, I think it's a little hard to kind of tell what, what impact Covid had on these, on these responses. So yeah, I don't, I don't know if this is necessarily the best way to tell if it is still affecting students, but I think again, on an anecdotal level, Covid is definitely still kind of a shadow.
MICHAEL DUNNE: She's Elizabeth Miller, she covers education for OPB, Elizabeth, it's always great to talk to you. Thanks so much for jumping on and talking to our audience.
ELIZABETH MILLER: Yeah, thanks, Michael.
MICHAEL DUNNE: We are going to finish out the show talking about a familiar subject, but in a new city as bend now joins other cities in removing Flock cameras. Clayton, Franke, a reporter with The Bend bulletin. Clayton, thanks so much for coming on and talking with us.
CLAYTON FRANKE: Thanks for having me. Michael.
MICHAEL DUNNE: I don't know if it's a badge of honor or what, but it seems like the city of Bend is one of the latest cities dealing with these license plate reading cameras, or Flock cameras. Talk about what your city council has done with regard to these cameras?
CLAYTON FRANKE: Yeah, last week in Bend, the city council decided to immediately stop using the cameras, turn them off, and not renew the contract that's set to expire in May with Flock. The decision, you know, came after several months, I believe, of sort of a movement in Bend, online and at city council meetings of organizing and people urging the city council to basically get rid of Flock. I think it was fueled by, you know, some of the concerns that members of Congress in Oregon had voice, you know, some of the stories in the media that came out about how some of the data was being used across the country, and it happened pretty quickly. It seemed like it's been, you know, the community organizing that came forward, and the mayor acknowledged in the meeting last week before the decision that, you know, the reason that they were doing this was because of the you know, sort of community outcry against Flock.
MICHAEL DUNNE: I imagine that your city's police chief maybe has weighed in, because here we've had several police chiefs say that the technology they like as law enforcement officers and that it has apprehended people. Were there comments that the police force has made with regard to the technology.
CLAYTON FRANKE: Yeah, they had a captain with the Bend Police Department came in to the city council meeting when this was being discussed, told the city council about the crimes that you know had been solved, or the suspects they had found by using the cameras. One of them was according to the captain that spoke, they found stabbing suspect. I guess there was an elderly man who was missing, and they used the camera to find his car and return him to his family. The police also said they found a few stolen vehicles that eventually opened up, you know, more of a regional investigation into a multi-state vehicle theft operation. So, I think it's, it's definitely true that that police have, you know, these cameras, they've used them to solve, you know, real crimes, and that's was definitely the case in Bend as well.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Okay, and just to clarify, is this a pause, or is this absolutely the city council saying that the Flock cameras will be turned off and removed.
CLAYTON FRANKE: Yeah, they decided to not renew the contract that expires in May with Flock. And the city also said last week, I think the day after that city council meeting, that the cameras were turned off and that they'd be uninstalled in the following days. So, the cameras are gone. However, I think there's still potential that, you know, a license plate reading camera, that type of technology could still be used in Bend the police said in a statement that, you know, they see that type of technology as a valuable tool and will be, you know, looking for new vendors going forward, some members of the city council said, you know, there's still potential for this type of tool to be used.
MICHAEL DUNNE: A lot of people who disliked the idea of the Flock cameras raised issues around, you know, immigration issues and concerns that it, you know, this kind of information might get to ice or something like that. I wanted to see if similar comments were being raised in Bend about the possibility of this being used for immigration enforcement or whatnot?
CLAYTON FRANKE: Yeah, I think that's definitely a similar concern here. One of the city councilors said during the meeting, kind of highlighted that concern about immigration enforcement and compliance with sanctuary laws in Bend and there was a little bit of public testimony from the Latino community association of Central Oregon, you know, they, they commended the decision to stop using Flock and sort of urge the council to consider, you know, what kind of, what kind of uses This could have for those federal agencies. So that was definitely, you know, part of the concern, concern here.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Well, it's, it's been a fascinating topic, and certainly it's been a huge topic here in Eugene and Springfield and whatnot. And so, I thought it was very interesting that Bend is also going through this. He's Clayton Franke, he's a reporter with The Bend bulletin talking about Flock cameras. Clayton, really appreciate you coming on and talking with us.
CLAYTON FRANKE: Yeah. Thank you, Michael.
MICHAEL DUNNE: All episodes of Oregon On The Record are available as a podcast at KLCC.org. Tomorrow on the show, you'll hear from United States Representative Val Hoyle and hear her views on the latest chaos coming from the Trump administration. I'm Michael Dunne, host of Oregon On The Record, thanks for listening.
