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Michael Dunne: I'm Michael Dunne. For millennia, wolves played a critical role in the Oregon environment, but then due to mankind, they were gone. Yet somehow, nature found a way, and slowly, wolves moved back into the state from neighboring Idaho. It's been a difficult, often contentious rebound where the outcome has often been in doubt. But in 2025, the wolf population in Oregon grew after several years of neutral or even declining growth. Today on the show, you'll hear from an Oregon leader of Defenders of Wildlife about our state's growing wolf population, hear why they're doing better than before, and hear what needs to happen to keep the momentum going. Then, in the last part of the show, you'll meet KLCC's newest reporter. Joseph Vaile, senior representative to the northwest program at Defenders of Wildlife. Joseph, great to talk to you again. Thanks for coming on.
Joseph Vaile: Thanks for having me on, Michael.
Dunne: So I understand the Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife issued their 2025 gray wolf annual report. What did it say?
Vaile: Well, the big picture is that the wolf population in Oregon is growing overall, which is a remarkable conservation success story. I mean, you think about so many species that are on the endangered species list and how they're doing. We often talk about their continual downward spiral toward extinction, but the gray wolf is an incredible recovery success story. It's great to see that, alongside, say, the bald eagle, it's showing some signs of promise in terms of recovery.
Dunne: What do the numbers say in terms of growth between 2025 and 2024?
Vaile: So we have 230 wolves in Oregon, and that number is important to put into context. This is pretty much close to a census. The Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife, the state wildlife management agency, goes out and tries to count pretty much every wolf on the landscape. They're not just guessing or modeling how many wolves there are. They're actually out there counting through cameras and surveys where they look at tracks in the snow in the winter, which was difficult this year. Many of these wolves are collared, so they're able to find the wolf packs through the collared wolves and get a very close count. This is called a minimum wolf count of 230, and that's a 13 percent increase from 2024, when they were last counted. That's a decent increase, which is important to put into some additional context: we did have kind of a flat-line population without growth for several years, between 2020 and 2023. So it's good that for the last couple of years, 2024 and 2025, we have seen some growth, and they continue to recover throughout more of Oregon.
Dunne: In your estimation, what's working to increase the wolf population?
Vaile: Well, where we've seen the biggest increase is actually in the western portion of the range in Oregon. We see wolves in new areas, and that's really where we've seen the growth. We have three new packs in the Oregon Cascades, so we're really starting to see wolves move toward western Oregon, which is where we're seeing that increase in population. It's important to note that we actually saw a decline of wolves in eastern Oregon. They dropped from 155 wolves in 2024 to 142 this year. So where we're seeing some growth in new areas, we're also seeing some populations that aren't growing. I think we still have a lot of unoccupied habitat in the state of Oregon, so I think we should continue to see wolves in new areas in future years. We're doing well overall, especially in these new areas, but there still isn't even growth throughout the state.
Dunne: Would you remind folks how protections differ for wolves in the western and eastern parts of the state?
Vaile: Yeah, it is a big layer of state and federal regulation, so it's a little confusing. In the eastern third of the state, wolves were federally delisted under the Endangered Species Act by Congress. Those are part of what is called the Northern Rockies distinct population segment, wolves that are in Idaho and Montana extending into eastern Oregon and eastern Washington. Those wolves are not federally protected. But in the rest of the state, the western portion, wolves are federally protected. Under the state plan, there are actually two different regions, which conveniently does not exactly overlap the federal listing status: the East wolf management zone and the West wolf management zone. Through the state plan, wolves have their own recovery objectives in each of those zones. Wolves have been in what's called Phase 3 in the eastern zone for some time now, because they've reached the recovery objectives for that eastern management zone under the state wolf plan. But they still haven't gotten there in the West wolf management zone under the state plan. So in the West, they're both federally listed and not quite recovered under the state plan.
Dunne: Is part of the success because fewer wolves are being killed, is it that more wolf pups are being born, or is it a combination of both?
Vaile: We actually had a really high level of wolf mortality as well. In 2025, 42 wolves died, and 39 of those wolves were killed by humans. That was a significant amount. I really do think it's the expansion of the wolf range in the western portion of Oregon that is leading to this increased population number that we're seeing. It's concerning that we've seen so many wolves die. A lot of it was due to conflict with livestock producers, and the state of Oregon lethally removed quite a few wolves because of that conflict. That's something my organization works quite a bit on: trying to work with livestock producers and state and federal partners to make sure that we have as much non-lethal conflict reduction work going on as we can, so that we can get ahead of conflict and try to reduce it as much as possible.
Dunne: How is that going? Is educating ranchers about non-lethal tactics starting to permeate a bit?
Vaile: There's huge success in that. It's a big job, a big state, lots of territory, and it's also hard to know exactly where conflict might arise. But there are so many success stories out there with conflict reduction. So many of the tools that people use, whether that's range riding or just maintaining a strong presence out there, can do a lot to reduce conflict. There's also a lot of technology tools that people are using now. Drones have become more important for monitoring and for hazing wolves away from livestock, but there are also a lot of tried-and-true methods, including fencing and this flagging that people put up called fladry, that can deter wolves from going into sensitive areas. We work with livestock producers who are using a lot of these tools. Livestock guardian dogs is another really important tool. A lot of folks are just adopting these things now, so we're hopeful that in the future, livestock producers get support from the state to implement some of these strategies and reduce conflicts before they start. It should also be noted that the state of Oregon does have a compensation program, so when livestock producers have confirmed losses, they are compensated for those losses from the state.
Dunne: Of course, another player in this drama is the federal government, and there's been a tremendous number of cuts to various conservation programs from the Trump administration. I wanted to give you the opportunity to weigh in on how things are going at the federal level with regard to wolves in Oregon.
Vaile: Well, there's a lot going on. It's hard to track federal-level developments these days, probably on any number of issues. Congress has legislatively pushed to delist wolves nationwide, and there's actually a bill that has passed the House to do that. At the administration level, there are efforts to weaken the Endangered Species Act and potentially refuse to protect wolves nationwide or develop any sort of national strategy for recovering the species. But one of the things that is hitting the hardest is the loss of federal support. Some of the funding that goes to support conflict reduction actually comes from the federal government, and we've seen some of that money pulled back. That has led to some real losses of capacity for staff who are actually on the front lines going out there and reducing conflict and interacting with livestock producers. There are a lot of concerns that this loss of funding is actually going to increase conflict between wolves and livestock producers in the future. The real, tangible impact of that is already being felt. One of those positions was in central Oregon, and that person was just instrumental in reducing conflict. That person is no longer in that position. So yeah, that's something we're feeling here on the ground right now.
Dunne: Do you think, with efforts from organizations such as yours and others, that public perception about the wolf has changed in Oregon? I guess what I'm asking is: wolves have been demonized through history in some ways. Do you think that perception has changed?
Vaile: I do. You can look at polling data, and there's a lot of support for wolves and an understanding that they belong in this state. Even talking to livestock producers, I think there's an understanding with a lot of folks that there's a place for wolves here. They belong here. Even though everybody was read "Little Red Riding Hood" as a kid, I think everybody just appreciates what wolves symbolize. They're a symbol of the wild. It's something I think to be proud of in this state, that we can figure out how to recover a species like the wolf. It's something that can really be a part of our natural heritage and legacy that we leave behind for future generations, something that shows we've left this place a little bit better than we found it. Recovering a species like the wolf is important not only in terms of its mythology and what it symbolizes, but it's really important for our ecosystems and for protecting wild nature. I think that's something Oregonians are proud of as well.
Dunne: And that leads to my last question for you, Joseph, which is: what does success look like for your organization going forward? Is there a number you want to reach at a certain time in the future that says, OK, this number represents a true comeback of wolves in Oregon?
Vaile: I don't know if it's a specific number, versus just making sure that wolves are sustainable and occupying the suitable habitat that we have in the state, which we're not quite there yet. There are more wolves in the western portion of the state, but there are no wolves west of Interstate 5. So we're still on our way to recovery. A sustainable population, one that is connected between the different wolf packs with genetic exchange throughout the state, one that is carrying out an ecological role in the best suitable habitat we have in this state. Obviously, there are going to be areas of conflict, and wolves won't be in every corner of the state. There's a huge portion of Oregon where wolves will not be, which includes the Willamette Valley, developed areas, and also the Great Basin, where there's not very much wolf habitat. But in the areas of the state where we have good wolf habitat and we can reduce conflicts to tolerable levels, we'd like to see wolves carrying out their ecological role wherever possible.
Dunne: He's Joseph Vaile, senior representative to the northwest program at Defenders of Wildlife. Joseph, always great to talk to you. Thanks so much for coming on and speaking with us.
Vaile: Thank you so much, Michael.
Dunne: Our newsroom continues to grow, and now you'll meet our newest reporter. Natalie Pate, the newest reporter here at KLCC. Natalie, welcome.
Natalie Pate: Hi. Thanks for having me.
Dunne: Some folks have already heard some of your stories, but let's talk about where you came from. What have you been doing before joining us here at KLCC?
Pate: Yeah, well, I have had the immense privilege of being a reporter here in Oregon for going on 11 years now, but I started in print journalism. I was at the Statesman Journal in Salem for seven and a half years. And most recently, I spent two and a half years with Oregon Public Broadcasting covering K-12 schools. So I've been freelancing, I've been around the area, but I'm very excited to join the team.
Dunne: So, tell folks what you'll be doing for us.
Pate: Yeah, so I'm an evening reporter and editor for the team, and I'll mostly be tuning in to things that are happening after traditional work hours. You've got your city council meetings and school board meetings, and there might be the occasional breaking news, protests or things like that. So I'm helping to really monitor and cover those things in the evening and help set our morning team up for success.
Dunne: Why did you want to get into journalism?
Pate: Oh, the big question. Well, I always loved writing, and I've always been a big reader and interested in storytelling. But growing up, I did not necessarily have aspirations to become a journalist. In fact, until I was 16, I wanted to sing and dance on Broadway, so I had different goals originally. But when I went to college, I decided I really wanted to do something very hands-on in the world of human rights. So I studied politics and French, I worked with human rights organizations, and did a lot of advocacy in that area. But I found it was very difficult to get people to care about the issues that were happening if they didn't know they were happening to begin with. And that's where journalism really filled that purpose for me. I love meeting new people. I love doing different things every day. I still love the act of writing. I like sharing and telling stories. I like having a platform to help people share their stories. But at the heart of it, I want our communities to be more informed and to be able to engage and be more connected. Helping share this information is my way of doing that.
Dunne: Talk about the challenge, but also the fulfillment, of transitioning from a traditional print reporter at a newspaper to doing radio.
Pate: Well, it's funny, because before I got my job at OPB, I hadn't really done much radio at all. But thankfully, Rob Manning at OPB offered. He said, you know, if you ever want to learn audio skills, I'd be happy to teach you. And then I got the very fortunate opportunity to work on a podcast. It's called "On the Outside," and it's about and with youth with incarcerated parents. When they asked me to do it, I told them I didn't have audio experience, that this was not my bread and butter, not my expertise. And they said, that's fine, learn what you need to, get the equipment you need, we want you to help us tell these stories. So I kind of got a crash course into the world of radio and very quickly fell in love with it. I have a performance and music background, so I love hearing stories that way. But I also just found how quickly people could engage with and empathize with the people they heard on the other end. It's just so personal. It's like saving a voicemail from your parents: it's something that's deeply personal to hear someone's voice. It hits differently when you hear a parent's voice crack from tears or hear someone yell in excitement. The emotion is there in a way that written words in print can't always capture. I fell so quickly in love with it, and here we are.
Dunne: What makes for a good story? What kind of stories do you like to tell with audio, something that you think is going to really resonate with the audience?
Pate: I mean, I think in general for any coverage, journalists are looking for it to be timely and relevant to a broad portion of the community. But for me, I'm always searching for those deeply human elements of a story, those universal themes that almost anyone can connect to. We all want to be loved. We all want to believe that we're doing well and leading good lives. So I think when we can find that in a story, no matter how serious, whether it's a very intense investigation or watchdog piece or a really lovely human-interest feature, I just like capturing those moments. For audio in particular, I love anything where I get to really delight with sound. I did a piece a few years back about teachers who moonlight as stand-up comedians, and that was one of the most fun audio pieces I've ever had a chance to work on. I've also done plenty of stories on dogs, and I love any chance to work with animals. Those stories where the audio can come in and really place the listener in that moment with you and connect to it: that's a powerful story.
Dunne: So, Natalie, my last question for you is, do you still keep your hand in singing and dancing?
Pate: I do. I taught dance for several years and continued voice lessons and performing throughout college and after. I do a lot of community theater and performances with local theaters and local companies. I love to do it. It's not something I pursue professionally at this point, necessarily, but it definitely fills my cup.
Dunne: Folks, you will be hearing her on the radio going forward. She is the newest reporter here at KLCC. Natalie Pate. Natalie, I really appreciate you joining our team, and thanks for spending some time with me.
Pate: Yes. Thank you for having me.
Dunne: That's the show for today. All episodes of Oregon on the Record are available as a podcast at KLCC.org. Tomorrow on the show, some online influencers, even those linked to the current Health and Human Services secretary, are touting the alleged health benefits of nicotine. We talk to an expert at the University of Oregon to separate fact from fiction. I'm Michael Dunne, host of Oregon on the Record. Thanks for listening.
