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Michael Dunne: I'm Michael Dunne. Since the Surgeon General first came out with its warning, nicotine and the products it's in have been public enemy number one for scientists and healthcare professionals, warning of the massive risks and harms from this drug. Yet today, a host of online influencers, even some with medical degrees, are now claiming nicotine can actually be good for you, not just replacing cigarettes with vaping products that might be a little safer, but telling people to actively go out and ingest nicotine to improve their health. Today on the show, we'll talk to a PhD and expert from the University of Oregon to separate the facts from fiction on nicotine. Then in the last part of the show, KLCC membership director will stop by to explain why membership drives are so vital to what we do. Lila Wollman, assistant professor of human physiology at the University of Oregon, Professor, thanks so much for joining us.
Lila Wollman: Thank you so much for having me. I'm happy to be here.
Dunne: What is nicotine? What does it do to the brain and to the body?
Wollman: Nicotine is a naturally occurring chemical. It's a stimulant found in tobacco leaves, and it exerts its effects on the body by activating something called a nicotinic acetylcholine receptor. These receptors are on many of the cells in the human body. So when someone uses nicotine, it binds to these receptors and activates different processes within our cells, leading to changes in various aspects of our physiology. Nicotine is most well-known for its actions in the brain, where it can essentially rewire the brain, causing nicotine addiction. This is a serious consequence of nicotine use. However, nicotine acts on many other body systems, including the heart, the vasculature, the lung and even the intestinal tract. So it has very wide-ranging effects.
Dunne: With regard to that idea of addiction, is there a way to quantify how addictive nicotine is, maybe compared to other substances that we also know are addictive in their nature?
Wollman: That's a really good question. Nicotine is pretty profoundly addictive. It's as addictive as some of the major addictive drugs that we think about, such as heroin, cocaine and alcohol. I think it's sometimes overlooked because it's so widely used in our general population. But I think that also speaks to how addictive this substance actually is.
Dunne: You described what it does in the body. Take that a little bit further with regard to the harmful impacts of nicotine. And I want you to answer that in terms of both on its own, if it's ingested in its purest form, but then also the delivery system, i.e., cigarettes, vaping products or chewing tobacco.
Wollman: That's a really good question. First and foremost, whether nicotine is used through cigarette smoking, vaping, the use of nicotine pouches or any other delivery method, nicotine has the serious potential to cause addiction. That's what maintains the use of these products despite a person's desire to quit. Having said that, e-cigarettes are likely to be far less harmful than tobacco products such as cigarettes or chewing tobacco, because we know that tobacco products are highly associated with cancer. Lung cancer for cigarette smoking, and mouth and throat cancers for chewing tobacco. There is evidence that e-cigarettes or other nicotine delivery systems can be beneficial both for smoking cessation and to reduce the incidence of those cancers. However, that data really isn't entirely conclusive. On top of that, nicotine, again independent of the delivery method, is a stimulant that acutely increases heart rate and blood pressure, and chronic use in any form is associated with cardiovascular disease and stroke.
Dunne: This might be a question for a linguist as opposed to a physiologist, but I want to talk about the word "safe" and "safer." E-cigarettes and products like Zyn are marketed as safer products. Are you comfortable saying they're safer, but not safe?
Wollman: Yes, thank you. That's a really good distinction to make. I think e-cigarettes and other nicotine delivery devices are used as harm mitigation substances. I think that's a good use for them. That is not to say that they're safe to just pick up and use for the general population. I think their role is harm mitigation when somebody is a smoker or a tobacco user, as a way to maybe bring down their risk for chronic disease a little bit.
Dunne: I wanted to talk to you about this because it was somewhat new to me. I was doing some research and found articles where it seems like a group of people, whether they're medical professionals or online influencers, and some of them quite devoted to what is known as the Make America Healthy Again movement, or MAHA, being espoused by Secretary of Health and Human Services Robert F. Kennedy Jr., are saying things like the health scare about nicotine has been overblown. In fact, they claim there are many positive aspects of nicotine. As someone who really understands this drug, do you think there's a positive, healthful role for nicotine in the body and in society in general?
Wollman: The short answer to that is no. Nicotine is a complex drug with wide-ranging effects, and there is a growing body of scientific research indicating that nicotine and nicotinic agents may have some potential benefit in very specific instances. This is in controlled laboratory studies where the dose and duration of exposure are highly controlled by the researchers and physicians involved. But when people say that nicotine is potentially healthy for the general population, suggest that there are no detrimental effects, and tell people they should start using it, they're misinterpreting that literature.
Dunne: Decades ago, before the Surgeon General came out with a very stark warning about the health consequences of smoking, cigarettes were marketed with claims that they help your focus, among other things. I want to ask you: because nicotine is so addictive and people do still enjoy these products, does it help at all with focus and stress reduction? Is that part of the allure, both physically and psychologically?
Wollman: Yes. Nicotine in the short term can enhance your focus, and it can reduce how you perceive life stress. But I think it's important to remember that what happens when you use nicotine or any addictive substance the first or second time isn't representative of what happens in the long term. When people are trying to quit smoking, for instance, one of the major symptoms they're trying to alleviate is things like memory impairment and anxiety, which are all symptoms of nicotine withdrawal. So the potential for nicotine to increase your focus or relaxation becomes a kind of pathological cycle once you enter a problem with addiction. Overall, I think people need to recognize that the short-term effects of using these compounds once or twice does not reflect the long-term impact that chronic use has on your health over time.
Dunne: You're both an expert in human physiology and a teacher. You teach young people. This is kind of a philosophical question, but it seems like fairly recently, maybe because of social media and the fact that anybody can have a platform, the science is competing with movements built on "I did my own research." As a scientist and an educator, is it a challenge to teach best practices in understanding and research when up against that kind of nonscientific evidence?
Wollman: Yes, it is a challenge. What we try to do as experts in the field is get people to trust what the experts say. In this case, the experts are the physicians, other healthcare professionals and research scientists who have dedicated their careers to understanding human health and disease and the consequences of nicotine exposure. These are the people we should be turning to for our healthcare recommendations. The overwhelming consensus from, say, the American Medical Association is that nicotine use is very likely to lead to addiction and poor health outcomes. I do think it's really important for people to go out and read what's available and advocate for themselves and their health. But I think it's really critical to look at where you're getting that information. As I said, the physicians, health professionals and researchers who've dedicated their lives to understanding this problem are who we should be listening to.
Dunne: She's Lila Wollman, assistant professor of human physiology at the University of Oregon. Professor, really appreciate you coming on and talking with us.
Wollman: Thank you so much. It was my pleasure.
Dunne: KLCC's membership director joins us now to give us the details on membership drives at the station. Brooke Bumgardner, the director of membership and outreach for KLCC. Brooke, great to see you in studio. How are you?
Brooke Bumgardner: I'm great. I haven't been in the studio since our membership drive.
Dunne: Which, I want to make clear, this is not a membership drive. But I did want to talk to you about it, because it's very important. I want to start with the very basic question that some people may not know: Why do we hold membership drives?
Bumgardner: You know, it's a long-standing tradition in public radio, of course, but we don't just stand on tradition. It's something we actually really need to do. Our core service to this community is to provide local, trustworthy reporting, conversations and exploring ideas and information. We're also stewards of KLCC as employees. We have a board, and we're all here to do that initial job, but it also means we have to ensure that we have resources to meet our community's needs. So the membership drives are a time when we invite listeners and readers to join us in that effort.
Dunne: I like sometimes to have my guests do some myth busting, and I want to give you that opportunity, because some people might believe some myths about our funding model. Many folks just might not be aware that our funding isn't as diverse as it once was. Talk about that.
Bumgardner: One of the things I like about membership drives is people call in and share what they thought our funding model looks like, or what their understanding is. Like with all industries and fields, the people inside have a deep understanding, and the people around us who are participants in some way don't necessarily share that understanding. A lot of people think that NPR pays us, and while I so wish that were true, that's not how it works. NPR creates these terrific programs and does its reporting, and we pay NPR to air that content or provide it on our website. A lot of people think that we still may be receiving funds from the government, or don't fully understand what happened last July. The fact is, we are 100 percent community supported. That comes in the form of community grants from private organizations and private foundations, or business support, but by and large it's support from community members who are also members of KLCC.
Dunne: We are, for example, our call sign is KLCC, and we have a very important partnership with Lane Community College. But they don't fund us directly, do they?
Bumgardner: That's true. We are part of LCC, and there are some services that, as a license holder and organization, we partake in, whether it's using their printing shop, for example. But we also pay for some of those services. Student fees and tax dollars that go to LCC do not come to KLCC.
Dunne: You're the membership drive head honcho. You have all the touch points during a membership drive, and you have the most direct interaction with members and listeners. Talk about some of the things they tell you when they call in to make their pledge.
Bumgardner: Yeah, it's been interesting how it's changed, even just since my time here, which has been about four years. This last pledge drive was kind of a celebration. There's a lot that goes on behind the scenes. It is a lot of work and takes time, but we actually really like it. It feels a little bit like a party in Pledge Central. When people call in, it's a time for us to talk to them, hear about what's on their minds, their neighborhoods, their communities, what's important to them and what role KLCC plays in their daily lives, whether it's, "I listen while I drink my coffee" or "I really rely on you folks." We heard a variety of things this past pledge drive. A lot of people really appreciate our increased local coverage, and they're recognizing that our news staff has grown and our reporting coverage has grown. We have Brian out on the coast. Macy is doing a lot of coverage from the Corvallis area. Nathan Wilkes' coverage of Coffin Butte, as well as some really critical local issues like the PeaceHealth situation and others. They expressed appreciation for our local reporting and coverage.
Dunne: Brooke, the term member and membership: talk about the importance of it. I mean, we could refer to folks as donors or customers, but we don't. They're members. Talk about what that means to you, but also to the station in general.
Bumgardner: Yeah, it is interesting, because they are somewhat clients or customers. They are on the receiving end of what we are able to put out into the world. And they are also donors and supporters. But they are essentially, and most importantly to me, members. We are all on a team. It's not that they're just supporting us, and then we do something with their funds and make something happen. It's kind of a feedback loop. They are part of the team that makes sure we have resources to do this work. And then we have people who are skilled in what they do, like reporters, programming hosts and our chief engineer, who do that work not just for us but for the whole community.
Dunne: There's big news about a huge gift made to NPR. What is that going to mean for us?
Bumgardner: Recently, we learned that NPR received two very substantial gifts totaling $113 million. For KLCC and our local community, what it means is not much right now. NPR's intention, and the donors' intention, is to invest those funds into a digital deepening that would allow NPR, and thus member stations like KLCC, to better serve our audience and communities through more digital options, meeting people where they're at. It's an investment in that infrastructure.
Dunne: A federal judge has blocked the Trump administration's executive order that impacts public media. Talk a little bit about that and what it might mean.
Bumgardner: Sure, you know, it is kind of confusing. I had a relative reach out and say, "Oh my gosh, you got your funding back." I so wish this were true. What the ruling means is that it's a win for the free press. The executive order was based on this idea that public media is doing partisan coverage, and the judge ruled that you can't defund public media based on that. However, the executive order is very different from the rescission package that Congress had passed. Congress makes the budget, and this ruling allows for a future Congress to re-include funding for public media, but that's not happening this summer or in the near future. It's kind of a signal that this is not done, and there's still a fight ahead.
Dunne: She's Brooke Bumgardner, director of membership and outreach at KLCC. Brooke, always great to talk to you. Thanks so much for coming.
Bumgardner: Thanks for having me.
Dunne: That's the show for today. All episodes of Oregon on the Record are available as a podcast at KLCC.org. Monday on the show, South Eugene High School is one of the top high schools in Oregon. We'll talk to the principal about what's working at South. I'm Michael Dunne, host of Oregon on the Record. Thanks for listening.
