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MICHAEL DUNNE: I’m Michael Dunne. Given the aggressive nature of the Trump presidency and the flurry of executive orders and headline-grabbing actions, it’s no wonder our federal courts are also squarely in the middle of the news cycle. In our system of government, the check of the judiciary must be ever present in our democracy.
Today on the show, you’ll hear from the top federal judge in our region about how he sees both his role and the role of the courts, often acting as the brakes on the vehicle that is the U.S. government.
Then, in the second part of the show, you’ll hear from the Eugene Public Library about an upcoming levy that is essential to its operation during these challenging economic times.
The Honorable Mustafa Kasubhai is a U.S. District Court judge for the District of Oregon. It’s great to see you again. Thanks so much for coming in.
MUSTAFA KASUBHAI: It’s a pleasure to be here. Thank you, Michael.
MICHAEL DUNNE: I have a lot of theoretical questions about the federal judiciary. For example, you have tremendous power to adjudicate the law, but like other judges, you don’t control armies and you don’t have your own police force. Talk about the kind of power you have as a judge and how that relies on the consent of the governed and those you rule over.
MUSTAFA KASUBHAI: That’s a deep question, and we could talk about it for quite a while. Turning to the Constitution and its creation of three branches of government, one of which is the judiciary, described in Article III, we are three co-equal branches. Whether the founders anticipated this genius in advance or whether it became evident over time, the checks and balances in our Constitution provide an incredible amount of resilience.
To me, that’s what allows our democracy to thrive and survive, even through crises, whether national or global. I like to think of the courts as a regulator within a piece of machinery. On their own, courts don’t drive the economy or set policy, but they allow the other branches of government to function in a meaningful way.
If I may use an analogy, think of raw government power as fuel. If you light a match to fuel without structure, it explodes. The Constitution is the structure, the design, the engine. You take that fuel, channel it through the engine, and it creates motion. The courts, in many ways, are the transmission or the brakes. They balance the ability to move forward with great speed and mass, which is the power of the executive branch and Congress, with the need to slow down or stop when necessary.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Sometimes a judge in your position is telling very powerful people, including the president, to stop or to go. What is that like?
MUSTAFA KASUBHAI: We have a long tradition in this country of respecting the boundaries between branches of government. That goes back to Marbury v. Madison and the recognition of the courts’ authority to engage in judicial review.
There are questions about how far that authority extends, particularly given the courts’ lack of direct enforcement power. What the courts bring to the table is not force or muscle, but compelling logic — the ability to move people to cooperate, collaborate and comply with the law.
Our currency is the words we use. Without thoughtful language, measured consideration and robust judicial review, that currency diminishes. Any power the courts have comes through the exercise of restraint.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Is what we’re seeing today — the tension between the executive branch and the courts — actually fairly normal, and we’re just paying more attention? Or are there real irregularities?
MUSTAFA KASUBHAI: I think we’re paying closer attention because there’s more energy behind policy decisions that properly fall within the executive branch. There is a natural back-and-forth built into our system.
I wouldn’t describe it as tension so much as checks and balances. It’s not a zero-sum game, and it’s not a contest with a scoreboard or a ticking clock. I think of it as an ongoing dialogue. Sometimes that dialogue is robust; sometimes it’s muted, depending on the issue.
I’d caution against thinking of this as a race with a finish line. Our system isn’t about reaching some final endpoint. It’s about an ongoing, formalized discussion grounded in the Constitution and the rule of law. That back-and-forth between branches is constant — and ideally never-ending.
MICHAEL DUNNE: A tennis match that never ends.
MUSTAFA KASUBHAI: Exactly. We may get exhausted at times, and that’s when we slow down. But the beauty of our democracy is that we’re all in it together for the long haul.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Oregon’s attorney general has filed several lawsuits against the Trump administration and the federal government. Is there tension there?
MUSTAFA KASUBHAI: Those cases raise questions of jurisdiction. When someone sues the federal government, those cases generally belong in federal court. The lines between state and federal jurisdiction are well-established.
As I understand it, there isn’t much tension among the courts themselves. The law governing where and how the federal government is sued has been settled for quite some time.
MICHAEL DUNNE: We often see cases where a single judge issues a preliminary ruling, and then the case works its way through higher courts. How does a case get assigned to one judge in the first place?
MUSTAFA KASUBHAI: In most districts, cases are assigned randomly through a computerized system — what we call the wheel. Judges aren’t involved in that process. When a case is filed, the clerk’s office assigns it to whichever judge is next in rotation.
That system allows one judge to handle a case from its inception through resolution. Some state courts operate differently, assigning cases only when they’re trial-ready, which makes sense given their volume.
In federal court, having that continuity allows a judge to deeply understand the attorneys, the evidence and the nuances of a case from beginning to end, including post-trial motions.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Do you have confidence in the rule of law, regardless of whether the president is activist or laissez-faire?
MUSTAFA KASUBHAI: Unequivocally, yes. Our system is intentionally redundant and, in many ways, inefficient — but that inefficiency creates resilience. When stress is placed on parts of government or society, that resilience matters.
As long as we continue to honor the Bill of Rights and the protections in our Constitution, I am confident we will continue to grow from whatever challenges we face, now and in the future.
MICHAEL DUNNE: He is the Honorable Mustafa Kasubhai, U.S. District Court judge for the District of Oregon. Your honor, it’s always a pleasure. Thank you.
MUSTAFA KASUBHAI: It’s my honor. Thank you, Michael.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Let’s turn now to the Eugene Public Library. Joining us is Angela Ocana, the library services director. It’s always great to talk with you. Thanks for coming in.
ANGELA OCANA: Thanks for having me back. I really appreciate it.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Let’s start simply. How are things going at the library?
ANGELA OCANA: I think things are going really well. I’m excited about what we’re doing. We’ve started a Coffee and Conversations program where people can drop in and ask questions. The feedback has been overwhelmingly positive — including requests for more bingo, which we’re happy to do.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Of course, that’s happening alongside budget challenges. Talk about how the library has been able to withstand those pressures.
ANGELA OCANA: A lot of that is thanks to our creative staff, who’ve found ways to work more efficiently with fewer resources while maintaining community impact. We’re also supported by strong Friends and Foundation groups that advocate and fundraise for the library.
We’ve trimmed around the edges where possible, but budgets are still a real concern. Oregon’s tax structure and biennial budgeting can create uncertainty, especially as we build future budgets without knowing how much revenue property taxes will generate.
MICHAEL DUNNE: What are some of the creative ways you’ve continued to provide services?
ANGELA OCANA: We’ve streamlined programs, shifted more services to digital formats, and reduced paper-based systems. It’s like household budgeting — deciding which subscriptions you really need.
We also analyze traffic patterns. For example, right after story time, we need more staff on the floor. Later in the evening, demand drops, so we adjust staffing accordingly.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Are you seeing more people turn to the library as budgets tighten?
ANGELA OCANA: Absolutely. That’s part of the marketing push I want to make — reminding people that the library offers free access to music, movies and more. When streaming prices go up, people rediscover CDs, DVDs and even vinyl.
We lend everything from cake pans to music CDs to movies. When you can’t find something on streaming, chances are the library has it.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Let’s talk about the levy and what it could do for the library.
ANGELA OCANA: The Eugene Public Library is funded through three sources: the city’s general fund, donations through our Friends and Foundation, and a local levy.
For nearly 25 years, voters have chosen to support additional library services through that levy. It funds nearly a quarter of our operations, including hours, programs and collections.
MICHAEL DUNNE: What needs could a new levy address?
ANGELA OCANA: The current levy dates back to 2015. This new proposal gives us a chance to reassess community needs. That includes helping people understand artificial intelligence, expanding early literacy services for children ages 0 to 5, and increasing access to materials in neighborhoods through 24-hour library kiosks.
These kiosks would allow people to pick up books and materials at places like parks or grocery stores, similar to old Redbox machines. The goal is cost-effective, community-driven service.
MICHAEL DUNNE: She is Angela Ocana, library services director for the Eugene Public Library. Angela, always great to talk with you. Thanks for coming in.
ANGELA OCANA: Thank you so much. Have a great day.
MICHAEL DUNNE: That’s our show for today. All episodes of Oregon On The Record are available as a podcast at KLCC.org.
Monday on Oregon On The Record, we’ll talk with a University of Oregon professor who studies the causes and potential solutions to homelessness.
I’m Michael Dunne, host of Oregon On The Record. Thanks for listening.
