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Michael Dunne: Antarctic ice is a perfect medium to study events over amazingly long periods of time. Unlike our seasonal freezes and thaws, the deep cold of the polar regions locks molecules in place for millions of years. That condition has led Oregon State University researchers to sample the Antarctic ice and discover carbon molecules far older than previously found. Today on the show, you'll hear from the lead researcher about how this discovery is changing our understanding of global warming. Then, in the second part of the show, we talk with our reporter about two exciting developments in Corvallis: one to help those living unhoused, and one offering low-cost mental health services. Julia Marks-Peterson, a doctoral student at Oregon State University, Julia, thanks so much for coming on.
Julia Marks-Peterson: Oh, it's so great to be here.
Dunne: You co-led a study about climate records as seen in ice samples. Tell us generally what your study found.
Marks-Peterson: I am part of a large science and technology center called the Center for Oldest Ice Exploration. My work has been focused on measuring carbon dioxide and methane concentrations in the atmosphere going farther back than previous ice cores have allowed. We have now found carbon dioxide and methane concentrations as far back as 3 million years.
Dunne: Wow. Tell us why ice is the perfect medium for this study. Why does it trap carbon dioxide and methane?
Marks-Peterson: Ice is very cool. The ice we're drilling in Antarctica is not like ice from your freezer. This is snow that was once on top of an ice sheet and eventually got compacted and transformed into ice. What's special about that is the air that was once part of the fluffy snow gets compacted into small bubbles. Those bubbles represent ancient atmosphere. When we extract the gases in those bubbles, we can measure past atmospheric concentrations of carbon dioxide, methane and many other things that give us a sense of the climate of the past.
Dunne: For people listening, tell us why this is important. What exactly are you finding, and why does it matter?
Marks-Peterson: We're finding ice that is even older than records previously found in Antarctica, going back 3 million years. We're looking into a period of Earth's history that we know was warmer, about two to three degrees warmer globally. These periods are often considered analogs for future warming. Having a better sense of what the climate looked like then is really critical to understanding what our future might look like. Carbon dioxide concentrations are a very important piece of that puzzle, and ice cores are the critical tool we can use to get those concentrations.
Dunne: Why doesn't the ice degrade? I always think of ice as something very sensitive. Once it warms, it melts. But clearly it can preserve for 3 million years. How is that possible?
Marks-Peterson: You have to go to very special places. Antarctica has had ice that has stayed put, not just melting off in the summer, for approximately the last 35 million years. You're right that there are many places where ice eventually does melt in Antarctica. But there are certain locations where the ice kind of gets stuck. We're working at a place called the Allan Hills, right next to the Transantarctic Mountains. Ice that was once in the interior of the ice sheet has migrated to this area and gotten stuck next to the mountains. That's why we believe it has been preserved.
Dunne: I can't imagine a harsher environment for a laboratory than Antarctica. Talk about that challenge, because clearly it's also the perfect place to find what you need.
Marks-Peterson: I was fortunate to be part of two different field seasons drilling ice cores at the Allan Hills. One thing that makes the Allan Hills unique for finding old ice is that it's an extremely windy place. The surface ice gets scoured by the wind, and old ice from below uplifts and comes to the surface. That's part of why we're finding old ice there. With the wind chill, temperatures can get down to negative 40 degrees. You don't want any skin exposed. You live there for upwards of two months on the ice, drilling seven days a week. It's a lot of work. You could call it Type 2 fun.
Dunne: Do you analyze the ice cores there, or do you send them to OSU? Walk us through the process once you have the ice core.
Marks-Peterson: We drill these ice cores one meter at a time. The scientists' responsibility is to package them carefully, keeping track of depth and orientation. Those boxes get shipped back to McMurdo Station, the largest station in Antarctica, where they eventually go onto a refrigerated space on a ship that travels back to California. A refrigerated truck meets the ship, and the cores get trucked overnight to Denver, where the National Ice Core Laboratory is housed. That's where all the ice sits until scientists arrive to subsample it. We cut up the ice and take portions to different labs. The pieces that come to Oregon State are specifically to measure greenhouse gas concentrations like carbon dioxide and methane.
Dunne: I always think of tree rings as a way to show the age of a tree. Do ice core samples work similarly, where the depth of a core tells you how old a particular layer is?
Marks-Peterson: Absolutely, and that's actually the analogy we use when teaching about ice cores, because it's something most people already know. It is very similar. At conventional drilling sites, such as summits or domes at the high points of ice sheets, you drill down through layers and go back in time. Those layers are nicely in order. The challenge at the Allan Hills is that those orderly layers have flowed to this region over tens of kilometers, and they've gotten all mixed up along the way. Figuring out exactly where you are in time is difficult. Dating this ice has probably been the biggest challenge for decades.
Dunne: Take us through how the findings in your study might influence our understanding of the climate change we're experiencing right now.
Marks-Peterson: We're finding carbon dioxide and methane concentrations from earlier periods in Earth's climate when we know global temperatures were warmer. These periods are often considered analogs for future warming. There are other ways to estimate past carbon dioxide levels, such as deep-sea sediment cores, and those have long supported a widely accepted understanding that carbon dioxide around 3 million years ago was probably near 400 parts per million, similar to today. What we found is that carbon dioxide in that earlier period was actually closer to 250 parts per million, quite a bit lower than the widely accepted figure. One way to interpret that: for a relatively small change in carbon dioxide, we see a fairly large change in temperature. That could mean Earth is even more sensitive to carbon dioxide than we previously understood. We need to do more work to fully understand the implications, but it's a significant finding.
Dunne: When you conduct a study that's this groundbreaking, what's your hope for advancing the science?
Marks-Peterson: I'm a paleoclimatologist, and I love thinking about how we can use these archives of Earth that exist all over the globe to piece together what the Earth used to look like. I find that to be really fascinating. Adding new information about intriguing parts of Earth's past is very thrilling. But of course, the broader point is to use our past to better understand our future. I'm hopeful the scientific community can use our new data alongside climate models and their own observations to better understand what this means for what lies ahead.
Dunne: She is Julia Marks-Peterson, a doctoral student at OSU, talking about ice and what it tells us about carbon dioxide throughout Earth's history. Thank you so much for joining us.
Marks-Peterson: It was a pleasure. Thank you, Michael.
Dunne: Our reporter Macy Moore joins us now to talk about two of their latest stories from Corvallis. Macy Moore, reporter here at KLCC, great to see you in studio. How are you doing?
Macy Moore: Good. How are you?
Dunne: I'm well. I'm thinking of introducing you as our Corvallis bureau chief, because you have two very important stories emanating from there. Let's start with the new supportive housing complex going up in Corvallis. Tell us about it.
Moore: It's in what we call South Town in Corvallis. There was a previous shelter on that site, but it's been taken down to make way for a housing structure called Third Street Commons. They just had the groundbreaking last week. It will be 47 units of permanent supportive housing, which means it follows a housing-first model. You don't have to meet specific qualifications to get in. Usually those requirements center on employment or sobriety. Here, you don't have to meet any of those conditions. You can access this permanent, low-rent housing along with support structures, which for this facility means mental health care, case management and other health and medical services.
Dunne: Is this a relatively new model for Corvallis? Is this the first housing structure of its kind there?
Moore: It's being developed by Corvallis Housing First, which operates a lot of outreach and community services and shelters in the area. But this is the first of its kind in Corvallis in terms of a permanent supportive housing model. According to their director, this model works very well in other parts of the country, and they're really excited to introduce it here.
Dunne: Homelessness is such a huge issue throughout our entire region. Has Corvallis seen the problem grow the way other communities, like Eugene, have?
Moore: I think definitely yes. I also see a lot of great activism around it and people working hard to improve the situation. Oregon is pretty high up nationally for the size of its unhoused population, so Corvallis has seen an increase. They're hoping this shelter will help people dealing with chronic homelessness get access to services that a typical shelter doesn't provide, particularly the health care and easy-to-access case management. Those resources should help folks in the most difficult situations move toward a better one.
Dunne: I would imagine that if this works well, it could be a model for more such projects. Is that the hope of the people you spoke with?
Moore: They definitely said this is their ideal shelter model, the one they believe will make the most impact because of its resources and thoughtful design. It will be fully accessible for people with disabilities. They also highlighted that the layout is almost motel-style, with no internal hallways. That helps with both safety and access to the outdoors. Permanent supportive housing is considered the most effective form of shelter currently available in the United States, and they would love to keep building on this.
Dunne: 47 units is sizable, but it's not huge. Did you get any sense of the overall need in Corvallis and how much more would be needed?
Moore: I don't have the hard numbers, but the director acknowledged it's a lot of housing while also recognizing it won't cover everyone. She's hoping it will make a meaningful dent and help continue to build credibility for the model and attract more funding. If the program goes well, they keep getting funded and can build more. She called it a small start but hopefully a big step.
Dunne: We hear that a lot: this crisis took years to create, and it will take time and incremental steps to address. Let's turn to your other story, which also has a mental health component. Tell us about the OSU psychology training clinic.
Moore: The clinic has actually been running for about five months, serving OSU students. It's part of OSU's clinical psychology doctorate program, which has been around for about 10 years. Six doctoral students are working at the training clinic and now taking weekly therapy patients from the broader community. They're also doing assessments for conditions like ADHD and OCD, mostly for adults, though assessments are available for those 14 and older. It's now open to the community, so anyone outside of OSU can reach out to see if they'd be a good fit. Because it's a training clinic, patient care comes at a low cost. Right now it's free. Once they finalize their pricing structure, it will operate on a sliding scale that tops out at around $50 per session, which is very reasonable compared to other options.
Dunne: Oregon ranks very low nationally in mental health spending. That's a well-known problem throughout our community. Does this feel like a meaningful model for addressing that gap?
Moore: The interest has already been enormous. The clinic was announced as open to the community about a week ago, and they've already seen huge demand. The low-cost aspect makes it especially accessible. The clinic director said they were almost overwhelmed by how excited people were. She said it really reinforces the mission, which is to train these students to be the most innovative clinicians possible. Once they finish their doctorates and move into mental health care in Oregon, they'll hopefully continue working to close that gap.
Dunne: With six students, are there capacity concerns?
Moore: Since the training clinic has only been running for about six months, they're not yet sure what their full capacity will be. They've already seen a lot of interest, but if you're in the area and looking for services, it's worth reaching out. They're also planning to start offering telehealth in the near future, which will expand access beyond Corvallis and the campus.
Dunne: I want to make sure I get this right: this clinic is not set up for people in an acute mental health crisis, correct?
Moore: That's right. It's geared more toward someone who has identified a problem and is looking for help. Since it doesn't function like a traditional clinic with around-the-clock care, it's not suited for people going through a severe or urgent mental health crisis. But if you're looking for an assessment or ongoing therapy for struggles in your life, it could be a very good fit.
Dunne: And for the students, this kind of real-world experience must be invaluable.
Moore: The director said it's been like night and day watching the students grow as clinicians over the last six months. The therapy rooms are set up with cameras, and there's a kind of mission-control room next door where other students and supervisors watch the sessions. They can intervene and help in real time, or review recordings afterward. The director put it well: you can't learn to be a therapist without actually practicing therapy. This is a really good way to do it, because the students get genuine learning experience while offering a low-cost service that directly benefits patients. Some exciting things are happening in Corvallis.
Dunne: Macy Moore reports for us as a reporting fellow here at KLCC. Thanks so much for coming in.
Moore: Yeah, thank you for having me.
Dunne: That's the show for today. All episodes of Oregon on the Record are available as a podcast at KLCC.org. Tomorrow on the show: two stories of new entities coming to Oregon communities, one being met with consternation and one with excitement. First, we'll hear about a proposed Immigration and Customs Enforcement facility in Roseburg. Then we'll hear about how the new WNBA team in Portland, the Fire, is finally ready to ignite. I'm Michael Dunne, host of Oregon on the Record. Thanks for listening.
