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Michael Dunne: I'm Michael Dunne. There are two schools of thought when it comes to handling the crisis of homelessness in our community and pretty much every other city in America. One strategy is strict enforcement, where local cops break up encampments and move people out of public areas. The second is increasing the number of available services so that those living unhoused have a place to go. The problem is that in most cities, one strategy is deployed over the other. Today on the show, you'll hear from an editorial writer of the New York Times who's done extensive research on the issue, and he'll tell you the solution he's seen is a strategic blend of both, and he's seen it in perhaps an unlikely place: Denver, Colorado. Then, at the end of the show, you'll hear from our reporter on the measure before Eugenians to create the Eugene Clean Energy Fund. German Lopez, a writer for the New York Times editorial board. German, thank you so much for coming on and talking with us.
German Lopez: Glad to be here.
Dunne: Boy, I'm sure you're aware. Just like almost all West Coast cities, Eugene, Portland have a real problem with homelessness, and it seems like we're often at a standstill. I read your editorial titled "We Know How to Fix Homelessness. Look at Denver." So, tell our audience what is the Mile High City doing that perhaps other cities like ours need to strongly consider.
Lopez: So, I think an important piece of context here is usually cities feel have created this, I think, false binary between enforcement of, say, anti-camping laws and providing social services. And Denver essentially says, well, you can do both. You can enforce anti-camping laws, but you have to have a place to essentially lead these people to, right? Like if you're going up to homeless people in the street and telling them, hey, you need to get out of here. You have to provide a place for them to go to. So, Denver has also stepped up its social services. Largely, what I saw was shelters, but they have also begun doing a lot of work with affordable housing and making sure people have permanent housing as well. And yeah, they basically just combine these ideas. I mean, one thing that's interesting is when I was talking to the mayor, he acknowledged like, look, we're not breaking new ground here. What we're doing is not like shockingly innovative or anything. It's just the the kind of common-sense stuff you would expect with solving homelessness, which is getting people off the streets and putting them into a place of shelter, giving them a roof over their head, and then sorting out the problems that you know might have led them to become homeless in in the first place. But the first step is crucial, right? It's much easier to let treat someone's mental illness, for example, if they have a roof over their heads.
Dunne: Yeah, talk about you give this great example in the story about a local cop who comes across a couple living in a tent, and he needs to move them on, but he goes what I think a lot of people would say is above and beyond normal policing. Talk about that.
Lopez: Yeah, I was I was really struck by this example. So, when we came across this couple, I mean, first of all, I was so struck by how much stuff they had in their tents, which you know, I've been all around a lot of people in in similar situations living on the streets, but this couple had clearly everything they've ever owned in there. And the cop came along, looked in their tents, saw of this, asked them to pack it up, and just started talking with a couple, like what what's their situation? Why are they here? And the couple just said, "Well, we're actually from Texas, and we have family there, and we would like to go back, but we don't have the resources to do so. So, the cop then went to his car. He told him to like keep packing up, and he'll be back. And after like 15 minutes or so, he came back with a bus ticket to Texas, and the man who identified himself as Chance started crying like tears of joy. I mean, it was really moving, and yeah, as far as I can tell, based on what the officer was telling me, that's the kind of thing that they want to do. They ask people about their problems, and then they try to connect them to a solution to it. In this case, I mean, the couple gets to go back to their family in Texas, hopefully, and but in other cases, you know, they'll lead people to shelters, they'll lead people to like outpatient treatment for mental health issues or addiction. It's really a case-by-case basis.
Dunne: Yeah, why don't you give us some of the numbers in your story that kind of point to Denver's success?
Lopez: Yeah. So, first of all, the striking top line number is that they've seen a 64% decrease in street homelessness from 2023 to 2026. I'm not just cherry picking 2023 for no reason. That's when the new mayor actually became mayor. So that that's why there's that focus on 2023, and you know I looked at other large U.S. cities to make sure like maybe the entire country just had a large decrease at the time, and no, not at all. Denver is by far leading the way. The I mean the rest of the country and did see a small decrease by about 3% from 23 to 25, but obviously Denver just completely blows that out of the water with the numbers it's reporting.
Dunne: Yeah, you point to something in in your article which I think is worth considering and worth talking about, which is so you know homelessness is a political topic, and I'm curious, you know, how did Denver's mayor Mike Johnson, you know, how did he successfully navigate that? In our state, we see politics weighing into homelessness all the time, and it seems like at least, you know, from reading your story, he's kind of cracked the code a little bit.
Lopez: I mean, I think a lot of it actually was came from the ground up. People he got voted in large part because people were fed up with the homeless situation in Denver, especially like the business community. Denver has the 16th Street Mall. It's like its biggest economic corridor for businesses and restaurants and all that. And it used to be littered with homeless people, like literally littered, and then also just had a lot of homeless people living on there. And yeah, the businesses, as you would expect, got fed up with that. But also, residents, right? Like they couldn't go downtown and have a nice time anymore. So, people were just really angry, and I think that gave him a bit of a mandate to actually do something about it and to really focus on this issue, and that focus is super important. I mean, I really don't want to understate it. I've been I've hung out with a lot of local officials in my time, you know, reporting in cities and whatnot. It the kind of determination I saw in Denver is really rare, where a local official is saying like, "Hey, this is my issue. I'm going to make sure it's right, and it is my top priority. I mean, politicians, as I'm sure you know, are usually they are pretty usually pretty bad at making priorities. They want to like want to make all their constituents happy, and but sometimes in politics, you have to say like, "Look, I'm going to prioritize this issue at the cost of others, and essentially that's what Denver has done. They're like, "Look, we're prioritizing this, and we will like address other issues as they come to the best of our abilities. But this is our top priority, and we're really going to make sure the local government gets this right.
Dunne: I am wondering, to you know, like for example, you know, I live in a blue state, and blue cities like Eugene and Portland. It's often been argued that we go too far towards the service part of this equation and shy away from the enforcement part. Talk about that because I feel like, like you said, they seem to have the sweet spot in Denver of doing both. And I'm wondering, can the far right and the far left maybe get together on this to drive towards a solution that you're seeing in Denver.
Lopez: I mean, it's certainly the toughest aspect of this issue is the politics at this point because as you just said, on the left you have this opposition to enforcement. A lot of people see you know involving the police in these issues is essentially criminalizing an economic issue or a mental health issue, so that that's like a political problem you have to overcome. On and on the right, you know, there's often an opposition to spending more money on social services, shelters, that sort of thing, and as Denver shows, those two things are necessary, and they certainly, I mean, I will say, like they've seen success so far, right? But like continued progress will require sustaining their commitments, and it's possible that as things go forward, they run into more political opposition than they can handle, and things fall apart. You've certainly seen that before, but I think on the enforcement side, because I think that's most relevant to your audience. Look, I would just say like I have I have hung out in a bunch of these different places. I mean, one place I also. To earlier this year was San Francisco, and I mean, if you spend time with homeless people for a while, like just living them on the streets does not seem compassionate to me. These people are like clearly suffering. Many of them are using drugs. Many of them like do not seem to have like the wherewithal to even really have much agency in their decisions. Like generally, they're quite sick and desperately need help. So, I mean I just I struggle with how leaving people in those situations is compassionate. And if you think about like think about a wealthy person who is addicted to drugs and goes into recovery. They often have families or friends pressuring them to do so. Right, like anyone with a sobriety story will tell you that they often faced someone in their life telling them, "Hey, you need to you need to sober up. Like you need to stop doing this. The problem with people living on the streets is they often do not have that support network at all, and I'm not saying it's ideal, but oftentimes a person who can push them in that direction is a police officer, like telling them, "Hey, not just to get off the street, but like pushing them to a service where they can they can finally get the help they need. And it, like I said, it's not ideal. It's not perfect. You would you would love to see these people have like family and friends put doing these pushes, but that that's just not how their lives work, unfortunately.
Dunne: Talk a little bit about the movement of and use of tiny homes in Denver. We see that here in in Oregon with limited success. It seems like sometimes there's a tiny home development that'll open up. It'll be instantly filled, but then that solves one problem. But then there's not enough other tiny homes to for people to use. How is Denver kind of utilizing that new kind of housing stock to help solve this crisis?
Lopez: It's trying to treat it as really temporary. So, the contractors who handle these facilities are evaluated based on like how they move people along to like more permanent forms of housing and you know more permanent social services and that sort of thing. So, I think that helps make these ideas more affordable because you know you can imagine, right? If you take a large, if you buy a large hotel and turn that into a shelter, that is per room, like per like for the people you're filling up, just more economically efficient. But the idea between the with the tiny houses is like these can feel more like a home, so they help people stabilize their lives more quickly. They help people build community that they can then rely on as they go forward to get a job, find more permanent housing, and that sort of thing. So that's sort of the argument: is that this feels more like an actual house, and for that reason, it helps people stabilize their lives.
Dunne: How is the mayor and his team, and just the city in general, dealing with just lack of housing and lack of housing that people can actually afford?
Lopez: I think going forward, this is the one of the biggest issues they face. Right, like at the end of the day, a lot of people in the middle class and lower class just cannot afford to live comfortably in Denver, so you know they are doing some things that I don't think are completely novel across the country, like deregulating certain aspects, like changing zoning laws. They have passed some ballot measures actually that help them build more affordable housing, and the state government too has also helped in in terms of like encouraging cities to rezone their you know neighborhoods so they can build more housing and that sort of thing. I mean, I think the mayor would tell you that he they have to do still do much more of what of all that stuff I just said, and certainly the numbers. If you ever look at housing prices in Denver, I mean, there it's not like it's not like Washington D.C. or San Francisco, like some of the truly most expensive places to live in the country. But it is it can it can still be quite expensive. So, they still have more work to do in this regard.
Dunne: Maybe the 800 pound gorilla, in terms of funding, is the federal government.
Lopez: Funding from the federal government. Well, let me let me rephrase that. So, yeah, Denver used temporary federal funds from the stimulus laws passed during COVID to really jumpstart this program, and one of the questions they face going forward is like okay. How do we keep our progress given that that funding is running out? I mean, on top of that, the Trump administration has moved to cut some housing funds and subsidies. I'm actually not sure how successful the Trump administration has been. Like many things with this administration, it's really hard to. A great answer on like what they're doing and how that funding is trickling out, but the constraints are real. And I mean, I think this is like an unfortunate aspect of this issue, where because the federal government is largely absent, Congress doesn't really pass big laws anymore. It's often left to cities and states to deal with issues like homelessness, and it's just if you're thinking about this logically, that's just the worst kind of setup, right? Because these cities and states are usually already cash-strapped; they don't have like a bunch of money sitting around that they can just spend on a new issue, which is quite different from the federal government, which could prioritize homelessness and could spend much more money on it if it decided, you know, to make cuts elsewhere, but it's just it's just not happening under the current administration. So that's something that Denver is dealing with. I mean, I think this is something that could really put their progress at risk going forward. You have already seen some local officials speak into question, like, "Look, is the cost of this program worth the benefit if we have to pay for all of it ourselves? And yeah, that that that that presents a challenge for the city as it tries to get not. I mean, it's seen a 64% drop, but the mayor says he wants to make it 100% drop, which is quite an ambitious goal.
Dunne: German. My last question for you is: obviously, mental health is sort of inexorably linked with homelessness, and I'm wondering in what Denver's doing. You know, is I know it's a two-pronged approach of enforcement and services. In that service component, has the mayor and his team have they increased mental health services and access for people you know who are homeless?
Lopez: Yeah, I would say that they're really starting to roll that out. I mean, it's early days on that aspect because they did start this program that's specifically dedicated to getting people into recovery, both for mental health issues and addiction, some of it is like using, for example, like what we would think of as like a drug court, where they tell people like, hey, you came here with this ticket or arrest or whatever it might be, but we don't want to put you in jail or prison. We want to lead you to an outpatient treatment program, that sort of thing. So usually, I imagine that's a lot of what they're going to be doing going forward, and they have you know try to increase funding on those services. I mean, I would say that this is really tricky. Off, like going back to the example I was drawing on earlier, oftentimes people need a push to get help for mental health and addiction, and if you're not doing that with the police or the courts, sometimes people will just refuse to get treatment. I mean, I'm sure Oregon has you know, Oregon definitely has experience with this, right? The decriminalization initiative was intended to push people with a ticket to to get treatment, and we all know that didn't really work out as planned. Yep. So, I think I think the Denver's going to have to find again that balance between enforcement and services, and that can make some people uncomfortable again with the enforcement side.
Dunne: He is German Lopez, writer for the New York Times editorial board. German really enjoyed the piece. Really appreciate you coming on and talking to us about it.
Lopez: Yeah, thanks a lot again.
Dunne: In the last few minutes of the show, our own reporter will join us to talk about the local initiative voters in Eugene will decide on to try and create the Eugene Clean Energy Fund. KLCC reporter Nathan Wilk. Nathan, great to see you in studio. Thanks for coming in.
Nathan Wilk: Thanks so much for having me.
Dunne: Yeah, maybe you could give us sort of a primer on this this initiative, Measure 20-388 in Eugene. What is it? What would it do?
Wilk: Right. So, this measure, this initiative, would seek to create the Eugene Clean Energy Fund. Essentially, what it would do is it would impose a annual licensing fee, 2% of the gross profits that major corporations make in Eugene. They'd have to pay back to the city. That'd be companies that make more than a billion dollars nationwide in gross profits every year, and also $500,000 in Eugene. So, somebody who's operating, and you know, there's some carve-outs, particularly groceries, as in food, as in cold food. Most of the things that you're going to take home and eat would not be included in the calculations. Also, basic medicines, healthcare, and a few other things. But then that money would go into a fund which could be used and is designated to be used for climate projects. You know, reinvestment into clean energy jobs and green infrastructure and retrofitting houses and measures like that here in Eugene.
Dunne: Is this a brand-new idea, or are there other cities that have tried to pass similar types of legislation?
Wilk: It is not a brand-new idea. In fact, supporters say they were very inspired by the Portland Clean Energy Fund, which passed a couple years ago, and that's raised more than $1 billion so far, and its allocated plan for $1.7 billion, I believe, through sometime in 2029. Okay, and so they view that as a success. Well, critics point at Portland and question some of the economic impacts that it's had.
Dunne: Okay, speaking of critics, who's supporting it and who's against it?
Wilk: Right. So, the coalition of people supporting it includes, you know, several unions. There are some small local businesses. There's a lot of the major environmental groups in this area. The critics include the Eugene Area Chamber of Commerce and some business advocates who are worried that this would essentially function like a sales tax. That this 2% fee on your retail sales would get passed down onto customers, and so you would essentially see higher costs of goods, and businesses would also see higher costs of goods local businesses when they're buying supplies that then they're using for business.
Dunne: We will have to wait and see. Nathan Wilk, always appreciate your reporting. Thanks so much for coming in.
Wilk: Thanks so much for having me.
Dunne: That's the show for today. All episodes of Oregon On The Record are available as a podcast at klcc.org. Tomorrow on the show, a national expert on school shootings will join us to talk about what happens in the aftermath of a tragedy and how it impacts the affected community. I'm Michael Dunne, host of Oregon On The Record. Thanks for listening.
