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MICHAEL DUNNE: I'm Michael Dunne right now. It's the season of outdoor activities, baseball and figuring out what to do with kids no longer in school. And in a way, it's also the season for something completely different. It's the season of protest. And while the brutal crackdowns by the Immigration and Customs Enforcement Agency in Los Angeles have rightly taken center stage, protests and rallies in our own community have ramped up today on the show, you'll hear from two voices about recent local protests. One is an organizer of the anti-ICE protests in Eugene, and the other is our own reporter who's been covering these large, loud and peaceful events. It's only June, but it's easy to imagine that this summer is going to see a lot more marching and a lot more community opposition during this season of protest that's next on Oregon On The Record.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Rob Fisette, an organizer for the Party for Socialism and Liberation in Eugene who led the recent rally against ice in downtown Eugene, thanks so much for coming in and talking to us.
ROB FISETTE: Yeah, thanks for having me.
MICHAEL DUNNE: What did you hope to accomplish by holding this rally?
ROB FISETTE: Our night emergency rally was held in solidarity with the protesters in LA who were exercising their community defense against ICE raids that were occurring down there and also then police attacks and now deployments of National Guard and Marines. And we felt that with that situation going on, not just us, but I think people in cities all around the country, you know, around the same time, we're feeling the need to stand in solidarity with them, and to kind of demonstrate to the Trump administration, to themselves and each other that we still have each other's back, and that, you know, if they Try to come and do those things here, then they're going to have quite a, you know, a strong resistance of people who are ready to fight back and defend their communities in the same way that you know, they're doing in LA now.
MICHAEL DUNNE: And Did it meet your expectations? Were you? Were you happy with the turnout and that sort of thing?
ROB FISETTE: I mean, it really exceeded all of my expectations, as far as the turnout, as far as the energy, as far as, you know, the people, the cross section of the community that came out, you know, a lot of these, a lot of these events. You know, there are people who are activists, quote, unquote, that are coming out to a lot of our events. And you know, you see the same faces a lot, and you know, it's, it's great those people are very committed and dedicated to the movement. What's really great is when you can have an event that has a very large cross section of people coming out who wouldn't normally identify as activists, right? They're going, usually going about their normal lives, working a full third of their life, you know, trying to take care of kids, family, etc, just normal working people who suddenly feel energized and motivated enough to hit the streets. And that's, that's really the feeling that I got from the crowd on Wednesday night. And it was really amazing to see.
MICHAEL DUNNE: I imagine, while you were organizing, and then when you were there, maybe giving us a flavor of the people that you talked to, what was their interaction like with you? What did they say about why they were there? Perhaps the group you just talked about, maybe folks that aren't necessarily activists, but wanted to come out.
ROB FISETTE: Yeah, in this age of social media, I mean, people are getting these images fed directly into their phones. 24/7, so the images of people being attacked in LA. And so a lot of, a lot of what we saw from people that came out, and what I heard is that they're tired of of seeing, you know, in a lot of cases, their friends and family, if they have friends and family down in LA, but also just community members who look like them, you know, trying, trying to just go about their business, you know, again, go to work, come home, take care of the kids, go to sleep, and then suddenly being snatched off the street by ice. And so that's really driving people into the streets and, and causing a lot of anger, and then to see, you know, as was reported this week in the register guard, you know, ice here operates a lot more quietly. They haven't, in this Trump administration, done the massive, showy raid that marked a lot of the first Trump administration and marked what, you know, the start of events. Now in LA. So, you know they operate more under the radar, because they know that here, you know that there are people who won't tolerate that. And so, when it was reported this week in the Register Guard, some community organizations put out a statement, I think that hit a nerve for a lot of people, knowing that it's not just in LA, it's not just in New York, it's here. People in our community are walking into that building and then disappearing. And that was a real, real sore point for a lot of people.
MICHAEL DUNNE: From your perspective, talk about what you view is the importance of rallies in the climate we're in. Because obviously, you know, rallies happen and then life goes on. But what is the kind from your perspective? What can they do?
ROB FISETTE: Yeah, I think the, I think the benefit is twofold, right? First is the rally itself, you know, getting out with the people in your community. And again, I really can't emphasize enough how much normal, regular people really just want to go to work and take care of everything and go home and, like, go to sleep that, you know, a lot of times, that breeds a certain loneliness in how you're feeling. And so, it offers people a bridge to get together with a lot of other people, or who are feeling the same way and kind of see themselves as part of that community. And that is important in becoming more politically engaged, more politically active. So, that is, that is one piece. The other piece is making a demonstration, you know, of what our what, what our force actually is like this. This is the energy that's here, and that handcuffs some of the things that the administration wants to do, even if they sort of don't stop, you know, if they don't just ice, don't just pack up and leave town, right? That still limits the extent to which they can escalate what they're doing here in town, and we need to make sure that we're communicating that message, because that is effective community defense. And then lastly, I think I said twofold, but now this is the third thing. You know, it's really about folding into organization, right? Mobilization is important and good and does all of those great things that I already talked about. But then organization is what builds power for our community. And that's, you know, whenever we at the PSL, think about, you know, having a demonstration, having a mobilization. We're also trying to figure out, how do we take the people that feel this way, that have this energy, and get them organized, you know, get that energy organized into a spear, you know, that can actually wield power against the system. And so, you know, last night, one of our big and for the last several months, one of our big efforts in that area has been building up what we call the Lane County immigrant defense network. It's like an announcement channel where we can post training sessions. We can post calls to action, like this, calls to action like other things that we want you to know that we're asking people to do. And then also, ultimately, you know when ice is taking action in town. I mean, part of our goal is to be able to show up at that moment, at that time, and you know, that's something that we're building toward, but you know that takes a lot of energy and legwork, and that's, you know, folding into that organization is another big piece of mobilizing.
MICHAEL DUNNE: When you organize a rally, are you concerned about the possibility of violence? And I ask that in two ways. Is obviously protection of your own people, but then also realizing that if violence occurs, it can oftentimes be, whether accurately or inaccurately portrayed in a certain way, that might either scare people off or remove some of the energy for your cause.
ROB FISETTE: Of course, we don't want to downplay the risks that things can happen at these events, like whenever we get large groups of people together to demonstrate about any issue, there are some risks. And I would say that our orientation toward those risks is very political. You know, as organizers, there are organizers who hide, you know, they'll hide their face, hide their name, aliases and so on. You know, our orientation is that we put our name and our face on everything that we do, and the reason for that is that we're asking people to come out, and taking political action is a. A brave you know, even if most of the time nothing happens and nothing is like expected or planned to happen, things can happen sometimes. And so, it requires bravery for people to come out, requires bravery for people to put their name and face on something. But we think that that's really important for communicating to other people that our best defense against the Trump administration, and you know, generally speaking against the system, is the largest movement possible that is, again, like brave and willing to stand up for what it believes in, with its full throat and with its with, you know, all of our names and faces behind it. So, so, of course, we take, you know, care to minimize certain risks, right? We, when we march, we have people that are ready to block the streets. We have medics come to the rallies to make sure that you know if something were to happen. Then there we have a backup for that, but generally speaking, we don't want to overplay the risks either, and allow the risks to make us demobilize. And that's kind of the key consideration that we bring in.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Okay, one more question about violence. I often see, when protests happen and there is an escalation, and we may be guilty of that ourselves here in this radio station, or, you know, other affiliates, when you talk about violence at a rally. Do you feel it's one-sided, like they're just talking about violence perpetrated by protesters versus what has been, I think, recorded in LA, as we've been talking about, is obviously violence from the other side, the quote, unquote law enforcement professionals who may be inciting violence?
ROB FISETTE: Yeah, well, certainly if we're, if we're talking about an event like this, right? Of course, the media plays a role in sensation, sensationalizing a lot of the action that's happening. And the media, you know, is part of the ruling class system. You know, for the most part, it is corporate owned and state owned and other things. And so, like, they have a vested interest in that side of the narrative. And so, of course, when we see, you know, things happen that are, I wouldn't always call violence, things like spray painting, you know, not that again, not that this is our plan at the rally, but like, we need to be clear about what we mean by this word violence and spray painting a thing I wouldn't classify as violence in the same way that, you know, shooting rubber coated metal bullets at people's heads and so on are so definitely, when we look at the coverage, I mean, it's, It's very it's expected that we would see that as one sided, and that we would frame, you know, protesters as quote unquote violent, and not so much the state apparatus, like last night at our event. You know, nothing. There was no quote unquote violence or property destruction from the crowd that I'm aware of. But supposing there was, I mean, there was an instigating event. The instigating events, even so are all of the ICE raids that are being experienced and the ice kidnappings that are being experienced by everyone all around the country who are, in some cases undocumented, but in some cases have green cards and have other statuses. So I would argue like this violence is an obvious instigator, even for the fact that we're getting together and doing this, and that we need to keep in account that people are responding and defending themselves in the way that makes you know that what they've determined makes the most sense for them. And you know, we recognize that oppressed people have, uh, have the people that have the problem, have the solution, right that, and so when oppressed people decide to defend their community like we trust that, that they know what they're doing.
MICHAEL DUNNE: My last question for you is this, what's your message to people listening right now, with regard to both joining in protests, but also in counter measuring what's happening, countermanding, fighting against what's happening right now.
ROB FISETTE: Yeah, you know, for me, the biggest thing is to get organized, so you can go to as many rallies and protests as you want, and rallies and protests are good, but the main thing is to get organized, find an organization that aligns with what you think should be done and is fighting for that thing, and join with those people and bring your energy to that group. So. You know, anytime that you are acting on your own in any capacity, you're limiting the amount that you can accomplish. And like, the only way that we can win against the Trump administration, against any element of this system, is by doing it, you know, together, in a serious and disciplined way with other people. And so, you know, if, if you're looking to really fight back against the system, like don't think that you have to do it all at once and all by yourself. You know what I mean? The movement, the struggle that we're in, is a struggle. It's a long-term struggle. And, you know, taking that first step to join an organization, and if, even if, it turns out not to be the one for you, then you can find another one. You know, in this process, you find another one that makes more sense for you and you can kind of build that way, but that's my number one tip.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Rob Fisette, an organizer with the Party for Socialism and Liberation, thanks for speaking with us.
ROB FISETTE: Thanks.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Zac Ziegler, recently joined our team at KLCC, but he's been a producer and a reporter for years, and he'll now lend his perspective on the recent anti ice protests. Zach Ziegler, our newest reporter here at KLCC, great to have you on the program.
ZAC ZIEGLER: Thanks for having me.
MICHAEL DUNNE: You were assigned to go cover this anti-ICE protest that happened in Eugene last week. Give us your general observations of what you saw.
ZAC ZIEGLER: Yeah. I mean it. It started off very simply. You know, people gathered along the streets in front of the Lane County Courthouse. Eventually, though, the crowd grew pretty large. It got to the point that when they marched over to the federal courthouse, I ran to the front of the whole thing. I was running videos. People were walking by from front to back, and that video is about four minutes, so definitely a groundswell of support.
MICHAEL DUNNE: I know you had an opportunity to maybe talk to some folks. What did they tell you about, both, you know, the rally itself, but also why they wanted to come?
ZAC ZIEGLER: Yeah, I heard from various people that despite the fact that just a few days later, there was going to be the no kings protest, they felt the need to do this just to single out the issue of how immigration is being handled, and how those who are maybe in the country without legal documentation, are being treated or even people who are trying to get that documentation, that is one thing we have heard reports of, is people trying to go through the legal process are getting picked up too. That was a case that had been talked about here that ended up becoming part of this, and what seemed to have kicked off some of this.
MICHAEL DUNNE: I'm wondering too, if any of any, any of those people at the rally talk to you about they were inspired by what's happening in Los Angeles, was that kind of, did that hang over this, this, this rally, this protest?
ZAC ZIEGLER: Yes, definitely. One of the speakers that I talked to specifically mentioned what's going on in Los Angeles. It was frequently talked about in the speeches, and particularly a few particular people who were well known within unions in the area, their arrest seemed to be something that really kicked this off and drew some attention and made them feel the need to express themselves.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Obviously, perhaps in contrast to what's happening in Los Angeles, this is a pretty peaceful demonstration, but I did want to ask you, sort of, what was the police presence like when you were there?
ZAC ZIEGLER: There were, I believe, five or six officers on bicycles, bicycle patrol. They maintained their distance the whole time. Just kind of kept an eye out to make sure nothing was going on, making sure everyone was well behaved. They definitely were keeping an eye on things, but did not feel much of a need to step in and do anything. It seemed just making sure, mostly that people were safe. And I will say, even when this particular rally was blocking traffic, it seemed to be something that people didn't mind much. The honks were more so people honking in solidarity, not Hey, get out of my way. I would like to be driving down, down 8th.
MICHAEL DUNNE: I know you've been a reporter for quite some time, and in other states, I'm wondering, you know, if you had the opportunity to cover protests in other states, and is there, is there kind of a, you know, compare contrast that you can make for what you saw, you know, last week?
ZAC ZIEGLER: Yeah, you know, the one thing that stood out to me, I did cover a fair amount of protests in the Tucson area. And the one thing that I noticed was the lack of counter protest. Everyone was on one side. I mean, maybe you'd hear every now and again, someone shouting something from their car, but it was very much so, you know, solidarity on this. Message, and that stuck out to me quite a bit from what I saw. I couldn't see any acts of vandalism or anything which was different from some of the protests I've covered in the past in Arizona as well. It was other than blocking some traffic and inconveniencing some people that way, things seemed pretty calm and respectful.
MICHAEL DUNNE: My last question for you is, other national voices have made this sort of comparison of it's starting to feel a little like sort of the summer of 2020, and I'm wondering in the folks that you talked to, was there a certain, I guess, the what the word would be longevity to these protests, the idea that they're going to continue and perhaps even grow.
ZAC ZIEGLER: That's something I wouldn't be surprised by, especially seeing the frequency with which they're happening starting to pick up. That's the frequency of having more going on here in Eugene, having more going on nationwide, and usually that that to me, has always been kind of a spark point, you know, be it all the way back to protests like Occupy Wall Street, sure, some of the first ones that I ever got to covered up through, you know, Black Lives Matter protests, or even campus protests around what is going on In Gaza that those seem to sustain pretty well. And this one, based on the numbers I saw, there were easily hundreds there. I'm guessing that we'll see some continued sustaining through this.
MICHAEL DUNNE: I imagine we'll be sending you out there to cover those! Zach Ziegler, our newest reporter here at KLCC. Really appreciate you coming in and chatting.
ZAC ZIEGLER: Yeah, no problem.
MICHAEL DUNNE: That's the show for today. All episodes of organ on the record are available as a podcast at KLCC.org. Tomorrow, on the show, you'll get a chance to meet the new sheriff for Lane County, who moves up in rank to take over for the recent departure of the county's top cop. Special note, we want to hear from you. Did you attend any of the recent protests in our community? Tell us what you did, what you saw, and what you think the protests can do to change policy or simply help engage members of the community. Go to questions@klcc.org and let us know your thoughts, and we'll read your comments on the air. I'm Michael Dunne, and this has been Oregon on the record from KLCC. Thanks for listening.
