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MICHAEL DUNNE: I'm Michael Dunne. Oregonians love their tax kicker and they love their forests. What if one popular thing could help the other? Well, some legislators have crafted a bill that would do just that. Senate Bill 1177 would take kicker money designated as a refund for taxpayers and instead create a reserve of money that would be used to prevent and fight wildfires. Today on the show, you'll hear from the sponsor of this bill and hear how it could work, but also hear why messing with the kicker is fraught with political challenge. Then in the second part of the show, you'll meet KLCC’s summer interns and hear about the next generation of journalists looking to take on the world. That's next on Oregon On The Record. Senator Jeff Golden from Ashland, thanks so much for coming on and talking with us.
SENATOR GOLDEN: Well, it's a pleasure to meet you and visit with you. Michael.
MICHAEL DUNNE: You have this bill. SB 1177. Tell us about it. Tell us what it would do.
SENATOR GOLDEN: Okay, well, the context is an enormous challenge to find enough money for our wildfire programs. We need something like $400 to $500 million for a biennium. That's in contrast to several billion dollars a year that California spends. And the general fund, as your listeners probably know, has been really pounded and oversubscribed in any number of ways, that's a whole other show's discussion, including the cutbacks and withdrawn monies from the federal government. So, we've known for a while we have to get wildfire off the general fund, and we've been struggling mightily this session and in a work group over the interim to find non general fund sources for wildfire to pay for this, to protect the state. And the last couple of years, I've been really alarmed that every available dollar for wildfires had to go to fighting fires, leaving none for community risk reduction and mitigation and preventing fires. And we're in a doom loop if we can't do something about that. So, I've really been focused on different ideas for stabilizing wildfire funding, and we are about to see, according to state economists, a personal income tax kicker of $1.65 billion that would come out as a credit on people's income tax for 2025 filing. And for various reasons, it's the last kicker we're going to see for a long time, or last large kicker we'll see for a long time. And you know, it was designed to refund monies back to the voters if revenues exceed the prediction two years earlier by more than 2% and it can be redirected to other uses with two thirds vote of the legislature was obviously a very high bar. So, what I proposed, and thought would be a permanent gift to Oregon and Oregonians, who are going to be struggling every two years to find money for wildfire is to use that kicker as a permanent wildfire Trust Fund, where you never spend the principal, the treasurer invests it. It's a safe bet that he could get a 5% return on investment. That 5% if you put a whole $1.6 billion kicker as the principal, would give us $160 million of biennium forever, or as close to forever as anything we do around here for wildfire. It would be constitutionally dedicated just to wildfire. And would be, you know, every two years when legislators walk in the building, there would be $160 million sitting on the table for wildfire and no other no other approach does anything like that. I amended the bill midsession such that a billion would go to that purpose at 5% generating $100 million of biennium for wildfire and the 160 the other $650 million would go back to taxpayers as a kicker, if they have adjusted gross income of 95,000 or under, as single filers or 190,000 and render as joy. Filers, although the higher you earn within that limit, the less percentage of your kicker you get, you get all of it back if you make 50,000 or under as a single person, or 100,000 or under as a joint return, and then, then, then you lose a little percentage as you go up. So that was sort of a compromise. Some people on the lower end really depend on their kickers. We understand that, and it meant that the money for wildfires spun off every two years, but would obviously be less, more like 100 million than 160 million. So that was an idea, a permanent source of wildfire funding. It's not enough to pay for the whole bill. You still have to find other sources, but it sure would help in future times when different services are competing so hard for the general fund.
MICHAEL DUNNE: I'm thinking, you know your bill and this idea is not happening in a vacuum. It's happening in a time when we're seeing some major, major cutbacks from the federal government for programs such as wildfire prevention and firefighting, that is that kind of one of the reasons. I know you talked about how we've, we've had this problem for quite some time, but certainly, are you also concerned that there's just not going to be money coming from the feds?
SENATOR GOLDEN: I'm absolutely concerned. You know, we can't predict that. We don't know what happens a few years down the line, but that just sort of amplifies the challenge. The challenge is that the state government has become responsible for things that didn't used to happen and in a lot of ways. And again, we need, we need more time to talk about this at all levels of government, where we are saddled with costs that are kind of like the chickens coming home to roost for 20, 3040, years, politicians have been kicking costly problems down the road saying, you know, somebody can deal with it in the future, and we're in big holes from the deferred maintenance, from the ignoring of problems, Whether it's homelessness, of course, we have this public works or transportation challenge this session because we haven't been keeping up. We haven't been investing. And there's, there's not really much road to kick the can down anymore. So that's why you're seeing just about every government I can think of in some form of fiscal crisis. It's because political leadership in the past didn't want to take a tax vote that they had to explain to their voters.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Well, that's a good jumping off point. Obviously, there are going to be people who love the kicker and whatnot, you know. And you've done this a little bit earlier, but just you know, again, make the case for people who enjoy getting that kicker money? Make your case in the context of what we're seeing. It seems like every year the wildfire season gets worse and worse.
SENATOR GOLDEN: The case is, are you interested in not seeing your communities and state burn to the ground like we saw in 2020 in my district and other districts and like we will almost certainly don't mean to be a doom and gloom er, here we see, very likely see in the summers ahead, which are all forecast to be even drier, hotter and windier than the ones in the past. Without an adequate wildfire program, it is super hard to be optimistic or hopeful about the future of this state. That's what we're facing. You know, to me, it's about as clear an emergency as we can imagine. We don't have to imagine. We've already seen it. You know, six or seven towns went down in 2020 there will be more if we don't put into place good preventative programs help people in communities harden their areas against wildfire, and of course, have the resources to quickly detect and put out fires, and, you know, reduce the mega fires that we see. This is the furthest thing from luxury. And I just, you know, people got to know if you get into the weeds on the budget, you can see how hard it is to find money anywhere near the levels that are needed. So, my case is, make this one time contribution with your kicker. Again, people under about $100,000 will see some or all of their kicker Under my plan, do that one time and forever or long after I'm gone, and maybe after my kids are gone. That money, that fund, will generate a significant amount of money for wildfire. It's sort of like the best annuity anybody ever offered you.
MICHAEL DUNNE: So, you teed this up earlier, but I want to go back to it. Do you think you can get the super majority necessary to make this happen?
SENATOR GOLDEN: Well, it's actually a super, super majority. Michael, you know, right? Here we call the super majority, 60% three fifths. So, 18 senators and 36 representatives, you need two thirds to redirect the kicker. 20 senators, 40 representatives, and that means in both chambers, you need Republicans. And Republicans have been very expressive that they don't believe in redirecting the kicker. They say, it's the taxpayer’s money, and we shouldn't mess around with it and I do understand that. You know, it's all the taxes we pay on, in some sense, our money. So, to me, the choice is, let's do this one time and have, as I say, this perpetual flow of funds for wildfire, or else, we're back every two years, taking taxpayer money again and again and again. And you know, I'm, I don't really need my kicker to buy groceries. It's helpful. I'm sort of a middle-class person, and I, again, I do understand the kicker check or kicker credit can really make a difference in some people's lives, and we tried to provide for that in this bill. But for others, you know, everybody likes seeing that credit when it happens. I've seen it in the past, and in my returns, I liked it. But we have we there is not an inexpensive or easy or convenient way to fund this crisis, the way we need to fund it. And I think it's kind of to me, it's kind of asking, let's all be grownups about this and make this investment that's going to pay off for our kids and their kids and their kids. It's a one time opportunity.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Yeah, if it doesn't work, as you said, that the incredibly high hurdle that it would need to go through is this something that might perhaps work as a ballot initiative?
SENATOR GOLDEN: Well, that can't happen, Michael, because of timing, the kicker kind of gets kicked really soon after this session ends, and we won't have initiatives and ballot measures until 2026 November. 2026 I see that kicker will be gone. We've had kickers in the past. There's a change now in the Revenue Estimate formula that has experts thinking we will have little or no kickers in the future. And not to sound like a used car salesman or something, but this is a one time deal that, you know, take it or lose it so the calendar doesn't, doesn't let us have another shot at this.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Senator, my last question for you is, I know the Governor has talked about, you know, looking at something creative like this. Can you sort of tell us, in your conversations with her, kind of where she is on something like this?
SENATOR GOLDEN: Well, we talked early in the session. She had some real interest. She has been saying, and, you know, formed a work group called the Fire 35 that met most of last year. I was an ex officio member of that and their charge was to get wildfire funding off the general fund, find other sources for it, for reasons we've talked about before, and this is, again, the kicker. Idea isn't the full solution, but it is another source, and that met her criteria, so she had interest early. I haven't really talked to her one on one since an early meeting, and just reading the media, it looks like she's had different thoughts at different times about it. And I, you know, I, I'm really hesitant to say this. I don't like saying this, Michael, but having talked out all my Republican colleagues, I'm not seeing a path to Republican votes and they've made that pretty clear. And I'm, you know, I've sort of made my very best pitch there. Folks are a little tired of hearing me talk about this on the Senate floor, and I don't think it's going to persuade Republicans to support this, which means it's not going to go forward.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Senator Jeff golden from Ashland, really appreciate your time.
SENATOR GOLDEN: I really appreciate you taking time with us. Michael, I hope to talk to you again.
MICHAEL DUNNE: At KLCC we're dedicated to helping the next generation of journalists get their start, and you're going to meet our newest interns right now, Gabriella Sgro and Julia Boboc, who are KLCC’s Summer Snowden interns. Thanks to you both for coming in and talking with us.
GABRIELLA SGRO/JULIA BOBOC: Thanks for having us. Thank you
MICHAEL DUNNE: Gabriella, I'm just going to kind of start with you. It's a question for both of you. Talk about your background, where you from, what you're studying in school, that sort of thing.
GABRIELLA SGRO: Yeah. So, I'm an incoming senior at the University of Oregon. I'm originally from Sarasota, Florida. At school, I studied journalism and film studies, so I'm really interested in the overlap of technical processes like recording and mixing sound and also community focused news.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Julia, same question to you.
JULIA BOBOC: I'm also an incoming senior journalism major, linguistics minor at the University of Oregon. I have been in Portland most recently and we love our Public Radio.
MICHAEL DUNNE: That's great. Gabriella, you and I had a chance to talk before, because I know you went with a voice people know on our air, Brian Bull, who is this professor at the UofO, and I know you went with him and others to New York, and you met with various journalists, and you went to various venues and stuff. How did that kind of inform what you wanted to do as a student, as an intern, and perhaps as a professional in journalism?
GABRIELLA SGRO: Yeah, so I went on that trip not really knowing what I wanted to focus on in the field of journalism. While we were on that trip, we went to such publications like The New York Times WNYC, and while in WNYC, which was the only public radio we went to, I felt so excited, and we met a bunch of employees who worked there, a bunch of journalists. We saw a studio, and that experience sort of solidified my love for audio and mixing. And I was just thinking, this is somewhere I could be for the rest of my life. And so, we came back to Eugene in January after winter break, and I filled out the application for the Snowden internship and said, I would love to focus on radio and audio.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Okay, Julia, what's your interest in journalism? Talk about what you might want to do.
JULIA BOBOC: Yeah, I came into the University of Oregon thinking that I was going to be a TV person, and then I said, Absolutely not. I'm going to be a writer. And then I said, Absolutely not again, still open for writing. But I really fell in love with audio because a great professor of mine, Charlie Dietz, who worked at an NPR station in Maryland, he talked to me a little bit about audio, and got me interested in it, and then I just ran with it from there, and had have had a lot of fun using audio as a more immersive way of storytelling as opposed to writing, although I love both, and so I love the idea of being able to transport someone directly into a space, and you can really do that the best, I think, with audio.
MICHAEL DUNNE: This question is for both of you, so I'll go to you, Julia, is there a particular audio piece of journalism that you can recall that you said, Boy, that one really inspired me. And maybe, if you can't think of a specific one, maybe there's a specific genre. It might be breaking news; it might be wildfire stories. I don't know. It just kind of stuck in your mind and said, Yeah, I want to do that.
JULIA BOBOC: That's a great question. I think it's cliche, because it's true for so many people. This American Life is a really inspiring source of audio journalism. And I think the way that the reporters involved with that, and obviously, especially Ira Glass, can make stories that are so extremely human and extremely emotional, is really incredible and so difficult to do. They make it seem so easy. And so, for me, I was listening to This American Life, I was like, Oh, I can do that. Now. Can I do that? I don't know, but we'll see. But it's definitely been a source of inspiration and a reminder to me to always try to make stories as human as possible.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Okay, same question to you. Gabriella.
GABRIELLA SGRO: I listen to NPR’s Up First every single morning while I go on a walk. And I remember specifically, maybe about a month ago, when the series of tornadoes ripped through, like Kentucky and those like Southern states, they did like a story about it. And there was a local reporter from a small town in Kentucky that had been, like the victim of this huge tragedy. And this was obviously like a, not like an NPR certified, like, not a Steve Inskeep or anything. And he interviewed someone. He painted this picture of I went to this person's neighborhood that was completely torn to shreds, and all the houses were demolished, and I sat on his roof with him and his family, watching the sunset, and we just talked about, you know, everything. And I like that, hearing that, I was just blown away like anyone, anyone can do this, if you have a love for it, if you have a passion for it, and you want to make it creative.
MICHAEL DUNNE: My last question for each of you, and I'll go to Julia, you know, you're walking into a difficult job, a difficult profession, and I'm wondering, you know, and let's face it, a lot of newspapers are shutting down. You know, there's a lot of external and even internal pressure in journalism. You know, Does that scare you, or is that a challenge or does it kind of excite you?
JULIA BOBOC: Hmm, as an incoming senior, there's uncertainty in terms of actual job security within journalism, obviously. But I do think that the threats on journalism that we're seeing currently, whether that be federal or economic, or, you know, just societal. I guess threats on journalism, they are kind of a fire underneath young journalists like myself. I don't know if you agree with the gaps, but like, it's interesting to see the way that journalism has reacted in the past to threats, and now being in it ourselves as young journalists, it's almost for lack of a better word, fun to fight against that and say journalism will always exist. Journalism has existed since Americans, America's independence and July, July 4. Happy July 4 since America's independence, and now we have a chance to continue that legacy and fight against anything that might threaten the reliable journalism that people have come to rely on for their lives.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Gabriella, finish us off. Same question to you.
GABRIELLA SGRO: Yeah, I totally agree with that, and you use the phrase like you put a fire on a young journalist. And I completely agree, because I was never super passionate about news or journalism until I came to college and started taking classes and figured out this is what I wanted to do, and I very frequently will get into arguments with my friends and peers, who will say, I don't read the news. I don't really think it's important. And I think even if I'm not able to pursue journalism professionally due to, you know, not finding a job or no economic security, I do believe that, like, as long as there's people there, to stand up in the individual conversations and say, This is why it's important you pay attention to the news. This is why it's important you stay involved. This is why it's important to listen to other people like that, I think, where the importance of being a young journalist is.
MICHAEL DUNNE: All right. Gabriella Sgro and Julia Bobox, who are our KLCC Snowden interns for the summer, really appreciate you guys coming in and talking.
GABRIELLA SGRO/JULIA BOBOC: Thank you. Thanks.
MICHAEL DUNNE: That's the show for today. All episodes of Oregon On The Record are available as a podcast at KLCC.org. 10 years ago, Civic Stadium went up in flames. Rising from the ashes was the Kidsports Civic Park and all the sports facilities it encompasses. Tomorrow on the show, you'll hear from Kidsports’ Bev Smith about the growth and fulfillment of their mission. I'm Michael Dunne, and this has been Oregon On The Record from KLCC. Thanks for listening.
