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MICHAEL DUNNE: I'm Michael Dunne. When we think about the word partnership, our minds might first go to business relationships. Company A and company B form a partnership to become nimbler and more profitable. But another type of partnership is slowly growing in Oregon that could have many of the same effects, with the added benefit of greatly improving one of the state's best assets, our state parks today on the show, you'll hear from the Oregon State Parks director about the organization's challenges in funding, but also in the ways they're looking at strategic partnerships to make up for funding shortfalls, from inking deals with bungee jumping vendors to offering gourmet food options. Oregon State Parks is evolving to become entrepreneurial in operations so that the parks can remain usable and beautiful far into the future. Lisa Sumption, the director of the Oregon Parks and Recreation Department, thanks so much for coming on and talking with us.
LISA SUMPTION: Happy to be here. Thanks for having me.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Why don't you just kind of put some context around what your organization does, and talk about the magnitude of the state park system here in Oregon?
LISA SUMPTION: Yeah, our portfolio is large. People just kind of think about state parks, and I think about the one place that they go, or one park that means a lot to them. But we have over 131,000acres. We have over 250 properties. We have all 380 plus miles of ocean shore, all State Park. We have 51 overnight campgrounds, and oh my gosh, 100 and almost, nearly 200-day use areas that folks love. We have over 5000 camp sites. We have more than 1000 miles of trail. I can't even think about the roads and the parking lots and the pavement and all those things. And then we also run the All-Terrain Vehicle program. We're also the State Historic Preservation Officer. We also do all the ocean shore permitting for the state of Oregon. It's a fairly large portfolio, so folks just think of the one thing that they know of the agency, which is generally the state park itself.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Sure, and I apologize if this sounds like a silly or simple question, but you know, for most people, maybe they don't necessarily understand perhaps the difference between, you know, a state park versus a wilderness area versus parks that are overseen by, you know, the federal government, kind of contextualize again, sort of the difference, obviously you are in the purview of the state of Oregon, but kind of, is there a, is there a general difference between what a state Park may present itself to an average user versus say something that is overseen by the federal government.
LISA SUMPTION: Oh, that's a great question. Michael, every time I ask a legislator or somebody, I'm like, What's your favorite State Park? And I get so many answers, generally, Crater Lake, Multnomah Falls, sure, sure, sure. So you folks don't know, and I don't know if they really, truly need to know, right? They just need access to their public spaces. I would say the general difference between what you would find at a state park versus a federally managed area would be where, generally people think it's just nature, but we really have a lot of engineered nature. We have flushing toilets. We have, you know, we also have vault toilets, but we have showers, we have full RV hookups, and it's a little more modernized campground, if you will. It's not generally our experience that is not going to be more of that backcountry wild experience. It's going to be more of a community-based experience in a park setting.
MICHAEL DUNNE: The other thing that I'm interested in talking about is talk about, you know, the employees. Talk about the people who work for, you know, your organization, but also, you know, the people who, who most of the public are going to come into, you know, contact with when they visit an Oregon State Park.
LISA SUMPTION: Oh, my goodness. So, I could not be more blessed and more privileged to work amongst a team of more passionate individuals as our park rangers, our folks on the ground, absolutely love our visitors. They love our state parks, and they are so proud to be able to have these parks available to visitors. There's 370 plus seasonals. We have a lot of folks on the ground that are right there, anxiously excited to get folks into their campgrounds or help them have the best day use experience they could ever have. They just, they truly love what they do, and they're very proud of what they do.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Talk about usage, if whatever numbers you have, you know, to talk about, how many people visit our Oregon State Parks each year?
LISA SUMPTION: Oh my gosh. We get more and more visitors every year. And people are like, well, you're busier, so you should be making more money. So, visitors don't necessarily generate revenue, right? So, we have over 53 million visitors as of last year, wow. And it goes up significantly every year. So, in the summer months, we have about 17,000 campers in our campgrounds. And just to better help understand that, like one campground, Fort Stevens has 5000 campers in that campground, nearly 85% of the year. And so, to put that in context, the city of Warrenton is not as big as the campground is at Port Stevens. It would be more like the size of can be, if you will. And so, we're literally moving out of a large city every day, and we provide all the power, all the water, all the sewer, all the enforcement, and make sure that everybody has a great safe experience, yeah.
MICHAEL DUNNE: And you know, it's kind of you brought up, you know that visitors don't necessarily generate revenue. Let's talk about that. Talk about how your organization is funded.
LISA SUMPTION: So that is the big mystery for everyone. So, we do not receive general fund dollars, but we do receive public funding. We do have constitutionally dedicated lottery funds that came to us in the late 90s, and then they were reauthorized in 2014 so about 49% of our budget comes from those constitutionally dedicated lottery funds, and then Park user fees make up a significant amount of our budget. We have a little bit of federal or recreation vehicle funding that comes in when folks permit their RVs. We have a little bit of federal funding for the Land and Water Conservation Fund and some ship Oh, programs, but the park user fees and lottery funds are the primary sources of our revenue.
MICHAEL DUNNE: And, you know we live in an era right now where so many budgets are under pressure, especially from the federal government and things being, you know, siphoned off or restricted or whatever. But I am curious to talk about, you know, your organization sort of is being somewhat entrepreneurial to sort of raise revenue to continue to, you know, operate, pay, pay staff, to rehabilitate places that need fixing. Talk a little bit about sort of that, both what you're doing, but also the philosophy around, you know, partnerships to be able to raise funds.
LISA SUMPTION: Yeah, so Thanks for, thanks for recognizing that we have spent over 100 years actually having the exact same dialog about once a decade. So, to me, it's kind of like the definition of insanity, right? You keep asking for the same thing and doing the same thing and expecting a different result. So, we really, truly want to launch a strategic initiative to reimagine how parks could be funded, how we could be operated, how we could be better supported, and shifting from this model of scarcity and constantly asking for funds to be able to run the organization. We feel like we have some of the greatest assets in Oregon, and we feel like there's opportunities to enhance visitors' experience, which also would generate revenue and boost our local economies. So we recognize that, you know, the public has a lot of demands on their general funds, right? Like, if you're comparing houselessness and mental health and all the other big priorities that you know the state is facing. Everybody loves us, but we're really hard to prioritize for funding. So, we're just trying to think differently and go, Wait a minute, what if we thought about this from a place of abundance, and thought about how we could actually think about new opportunities that we could create within the system itself. And we hear things all the time, like, people want, want food carts. They want ice cream they'll eat after a long hike. They want to be able to reward themselves with things like that and some people want some different experiences that we don't currently offer. And so, we'd love to explore that more with the public. To say, hey, let's, let's re imagine what the state park system could look like for the future. Let's not sit here and wait for the crisis. Let's try to get in front of it and see if we can imagine something more beautiful together.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Could you give some examples, maybe, of partnerships that you currently have? Because I think, I think a lot of people may not sort of be able to determine what a partnership could look like?
LISA SUMPTION: Yeah, so some that we already have. So, a great example is Peterson Ogden. Do you know where that is? Help me remember it's over by the CO Palisades, okay? And it's more of a rest area, but it has a historic, significantly historic bridge. And it was an area that was probably underutilized and not it was. It was a place that gathered things that we didn't really want happening in it, in that space. And we had a partner who kept coming to us and wanted your bungee jumping off of that bridge. And we were like, No, it's historically significant. It'll be a problem. He engineered his truck to be able to go out over the bridge, never touch the bridge. And it is one of the most popular, popular bungees jumping things in the country, because it's at, like, the highest point. And I was like, no one will do it. 90-year-olds do it like everyone wants to do. It's just re-imagining, like, what could be in a space like Silver Falls. We have a partner up there that allows people to climb some of the old growth. They could spend the night up in the canopy if they wanted camping. Camp amongst the canopy. Probably not something our rangers are going to set up and do, but it's, it's also very popular. So, there's all kinds of different experiences we could explore. But those are, those are a couple that we currently have in the system that we've piloted with that very successfully.
MICHAEL DUNNE: I always think that, you know, state parks, beautiful state parks, like we have in Oregon, are, you could almost make the argument you're a little victim of your own success. People love them. They love to visit them. And of course, that creates a situation of overuse. Are there particular parks that just get so overused and so those are the ones that might need the most funding and perhaps partnerships like we're talking about to be able to afford restoration and repair and the staff necessary to do those things?
LISA SUMPTION: Oh, my goodness, yes. And so, this place is so summer Falls is a great example. We have been, you know, like, we can't have one more person in Silver Falls. I hear people all the time say it's like hiking at Disneyland. There are so many people now. So, we've been trying to expand experiences, if you will, up there. So, like, you can do the 10-waterfall trail, and then you also can go do it on the 214 side. You can go mountain biking. There's a question about experience. We have a new vendor up there that's providing more of a resort-like experience. We have the tree climbing, and then we're also adding a new visitor center and a new campground at the North falls entrance area. So, trying to just think about, like, how can we expand in places we have because people are going to keep coming, right and also generate additional revenue. And then, to your point, like you think about Smith Rock, there are so many visitors, especially during climate climbing season there, and we do have great demands and needs. And just trying to think about, how do you care for the resource over time? So, it isn't over loved and it will be there for, you know, generations to come. So all those things, and then we have places that are under-loved. And could there be, could there be an opportunity to do something there that would attract more people to go there and disperse our visitation and the boy every time there's like a seven wonders campaign, or something like No, no, no, don't tell people to go to the other places. There's already too much known that makes you think there's places we haven't explored to make us more loved as well.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Maybe now it's an opportunity. Are there some that you think you know, boy, Oregonians? What about this place? If so, if there's a park that's over utilized. You might think you might take a detour and go there.
LISA SUMPTION: Oh, I hate to say it, because I used to say, like, my name State Park, and every time I've been there in the last couple of years, it's packed. So that is the risk, right? So, the South Coast is constantly saying, you know, it is a bit further, but, man, it is such a different scenic experience, and it's not as busy as the central coast or the North Coast, right? So, the southern coast is probably a great place. And then, you know, if you get over to Red bridge, UK Dale, Immigrant Springs, there's that whole, that whole eastern side has a lot more, a lot less people, I would I would say, sure, because of their seasonality and distance, but they're beautiful places.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Let's say somebody comes to you. You kind of gave it a good example about the bungee jumping situation. I'm wondering, you know when, when a partnership appears, or, maybe you're thinking about something, what kind of test you run it through? Because obviously, you know, it can't be everything, because I would imagine preserving the park is number one priority. But talk about a decision about a type of private sector partnership, how do you kind of gage that to make sure it's going to work for you and the parks department.
LISA SUMPTION: So, this is a beautiful question, because we actually just received legislative authority to be exempt from state procurement processes, and we'll be recreating state procurement process, or parks procurement process. Processes that work for our system, because in the past, it's been challenging to follow the state procurement procedures to attract those kinds of partners. It's very, it's just a lot. There's a lot more barriers for folks. We actually have lost some of our procurement partners that have been local and worked with us for a long time that just didn't have the ability to participate at that bigger statewide level. So, we have brand new authority that will be able to put in place in October of this year that will allow us to actually come up with some different processes, procedures and considerations, so that right now, we'll be going out for rule making here, very, very shortly, to have some of those conversations. But to your point, it is about preserving and protecting the park first, right? So, for example, is with the tree climber situation. We also want to protect habitat, and so we need to attract a partner that can do those things with and for us potentially. So that way, we can offer these different experiences but still protect the things that we care the most about, and having that like the bungee jumping guy is a great example, right? Like he kept coming back with every barrier we gave him and finding a way to mitigate it. And it's being open to the risks of the mitigation, right? Like, at some point the answer is yes, and it works, and he mitigated every concern we have, and we also have to be open so we can't make the mitigation so extreme that we can never do anything. But I think right now we'll go slow, and there's a line, right? We don't want to cross the line where it's just too many partnerships, or it's, you know, I don't even know what the example is, you know, Nike brought to you, or, you know, sure, silver frost brought to you by Nike, or something. It's, it's not that. It's just enhancing experiences that the folks really want to have in their state parks?
MICHAEL DUNNE: You spoke eloquently about the fact that in some ways, you know, the parks are almost like small little towns, and that's great in a lot of ways. But of course, that means that you have the same challenges that any town in Oregon would have. Talk a little bit about those challenges. Because, again, you know, anything good and perhaps challenging that can happen in a city or town in Oregon can happen in a park.
LISA SUMPTION: To your point, you know those things do happen in our parks, unfortunately, and it's, it's not always great happy camper stories. There are, you know, we're high destinations for suicides. There's lots of folks that are under experienced and take on some trails, or some experiences that are way over their capacity and abilities. So, you know, our rangers are our first hand and first responders in many situations. And they're not law enforcement, right? They use verbal judo; they do everything they can to deescalate situations and rely on our local law enforcement partners to show up when we do have but our biggest concerns are our system failures. It'll be Saturday, and the water or the sewer system will go out, and we have 5000 campers in a campground, and it's not so awesome. You're not so happy when you can't shower or go to the bathroom or flush the toilet. So sure, we talk a lot about poop. Those are our biggest things. Our infrastructure is super old, and we need to be able to maintain it or replace it, to be able to keep our folks happy while they're there. But generally, people behave very well in state parks. It's pretty rare that we have bigger behavioral issues.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Well, that leads me to, sort of my last question. And maybe, you know, maybe Covid is, is a good example of a situation where, you know, the whole world was in chaos, but going to a park was such a, I would imagine a tremendous, you know, refuse for people, refuge, for people, you know, talk about, sort of what parks mean. State parks mean to Oregon.
LISA SUMPTION: Oh, my goodness, right there, there is DNA, there is fabric, right when, every time you talk to somebody, and you talk about Oregon, regardless of where they're from, like, oh my gosh, it's the most beautiful state. You guys have so many amazing things, you know, natural resources in the Pacific Northwest are amazing. It is part of our health, it is part of our education. It is part of us, it's just part of our DNA. It's part of who we are, right? That's why most people live here, is to be able to have access to these incredible resources. So, it means everything to Oregon. It means everything to our small local economies. We're in mostly rural areas, and without those parks in those areas. I mean, you watch up the sand Canyon right Detroit Lake, like we're so grateful that we can still be there for that community and do everything we can to help them recover from 2020
so, we mean a lot to the state of Oregon, and we totally get that, and we appreciate that.
MICHAEL DUNNE: Excellent Well, Lisa Sumption, the director of the Oregon Parks and Recreation Department, thank you so much for coming on and talking with us.
LISA SUMPTION: Thanks for having me, Michael.
MICHAEL DUNNE: That's the show for today. All episodes of Oregon On The Record are available as a podcast at KLCC.org. Before we go, we'd like your input. Recently, we talked with the Speaker of the Oregon House about the legislative session that just ended, and got a preview of the special session that will begin in August to address transportation funding. Are you confident that the Oregon legislature can pass legislation to improve our state's overall transportation issues? Send us a comment on our Facebook blue sky or Instagram pages, or email us at questions@klcc.org and we'll read your comments on the air. We did get some comments from listeners who heard our recent show with us, Senator Jeff Merkley about the impacts and funding cuts coming from the White House and President Trump. One person wrote, where was he four years ago? Why now we've all known these facts for a very long time. It's all theater. Yet. Another person said they appreciated hearing the Senator's thoughts and wanted even more conversations with elected officials. We always appreciate your comments. Keep them coming. Tomorrow on the show, you'll hear about a community college president running across Oregon to raise money for students, to hear about new funding for airports and seniors throughout the state. I'm Michael Dunne, and this is Oregon On The Record from KLCC. Thanks for listening.
